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Old 05-31-2018, 02:53 PM   #41
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10 seconds? Does that include the hassle of removing and reinstalling and wheeling to a disposal? You make no mention of frequency to do so, the hassle to find an appropriate dump other than dedicated dump stations and no one mentions you have to dispose of grey water anyway.

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I don't really understand your argument here. If you are at a dump station anyways to do your gray, it's just a matter of pulling it out an sticking it in the hole. You are only wheeling it around if you have a need to do so. I would think that option would be attractive to those adventuring types that go off the beaten path and avoid traditional campgrounds.

I suppose with two people you'd need to deal with your cassette every 3 days or so - most likely twice your frequency of dumping your gray, but maybe not.

I've read so many posts that people say they never use the toilet or the shower in their B (or only for middle of the night or emergencies) and seek out campground facilities. If you are one of these people, this setup would probably be very agreeable to you. The Russos only pee in their cassette, so I imagine they stretch their dump frequency quite a bit. I would also think, that if you are the type to only stay in campgrounds, then your stays might be longer - so it might be far easier to roll your cassette to the dump station instead of breaking camp and moving your rig over there.

All that said, although this setup is not something I would prefer, but I can understand how some folks would - enough for there to be a market - and not just noobs being suckered into it as I think you are implying. There are upsides and downsides to every design decision in a B, as all are trade-offs.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:08 PM   #42
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As far as footprint goes, I'm mainly referring to what you see in the Hymer Aktiv and the Winnebago Revel.

The Aktiv is particularly compact - basically a 24" square. This works with the cassette toilet because the head actually swivels out of the way so you can use the compartment as a shower (along with the flip-down sink). This is a brilliant use of space for folks not wanting to devote so much of the van's space to a bathroom. What black tank type toilet has a swivel head? I know of none. Granted, this is pretty tight for those more rotund, but not for most people. It certainly makes the shorter length Aktiv 1.0 work so you can still have a big bed/storage area plus the front dinnette. A larger bath would diminish those other attributes.

In the Revel, they took a more traditional approach - the fixed position head, but they let the whole compartment be dual purpose - removable shelf system you can put in and use it as a gear closet instead of a bath. They went with the cassette though, as part of their effort to make this a bullet proof 4 season system - the entirety of the black system is inside the heated space. Probably saved alot of cost, as the demographic for this vehicle is younger and more price sensitive.
Well written points highlighting the need to incorporate design tradeoffs leading to an optimum design. Space constrains surface to the top in short wheel base vans, changing users to a “mini me” is not an option. Criticizing a design without objectivity of understanding design tradeoffs is usually not very helpful.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:27 PM   #43
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Well written points highlighting the need to incorporate design tradeoffs leading to an optimum design. Space constrains surface to the top in short wheel base vans, changing users to a “mini me” is not an option. Criticizing a design without objectivity of understanding design tradeoffs is usually not very helpful.
Thank you. I'd be hard pressed to argue that this system would appeal installed in a 24' long XL Sprinter where you have the luxury of space. But in a smaller van, you bet!
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:49 PM   #44
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It is not difficult to make a bulletproof 4-season black-tank based system. I have one. Most black tanks are mostly in the heated area anyway (i.e., built into the toilet pedestal). Add some simple loops from a hydronic heating system and you are all set. Mine is heated all the way out to the macerator hose.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:56 PM   #45
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It is not difficult to make a bulletproof 4-season black-tank based system. I have one. Most black tanks are mostly in the heated area anyway (i.e., built into the toilet pedestal). Add some simple loops from a hydronic heating system and you are all set. Mine is heated all the way out to the macerator hose.
Yes, of course. But that comes at a cost, doesn't it? Plus, on a 4x4 marketed to folks taking it out in the wilds, you don't want a bunch of stuff hanging underneath it, do you? The fewer boxes, wires and tubes, the better.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:35 PM   #46
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It is not difficult to make a bulletproof 4-season black-tank based system. I have one. Most black tanks are mostly in the heated area anyway (i.e., built into the toilet pedestal). Add some simple loops from a hydronic heating system and you are all set. Mine is heated all the way out to the macerator hose.
I had a full 4-season Bigfoot trailer with an LPG furnace so it is not a rocket science. Having an LPG heater and diesel D2 with D5 on the current van I would prefer LPG based heating, simpler as long as it is quiet, my Suburban furnace was terribly loud. Under floor mounted tanks were contained in an air tight compartment with hot air inflow, I believe it is a simpler method than hydronic loop.

Cassette and composting toilets are unique from the 4-season perspective, they don’t need running heater and are still immune to frigid temperatures. Cassette would require an antifreeze fluid like propylene glycol or perhaps windshield washer fluid in the flush water tank.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:44 PM   #47
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Cassette and composting toilets are unique from the 4-season perspective, they don’t need running heater and are still immune to frigid temperatures. Cassette would require an antifreeze fluid like propylene glycol or perhaps windshield washer fluid in the flush water tank.
You can do that with a black-tank, too. Lots of people flush with antifreeze in the winter. I guess having a separate flush tank is a complication, but lots of people do it manually.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:06 AM   #48
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You can do that with a black-tank, too. Lots of people flush with antifreeze in the winter. I guess having a separate flush tank is a complication, but lots of people do it manually.
There's more than one way to skin a cat in regards to #1 and #2
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