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Old 09-20-2019, 05:04 AM   #1
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Default Battery question?

Im about to store my 95 roadTrek and usually I take out the shore batteries (2 of them) and the main battery in the engine and place them on a trickle charger.
My question is if I just leave every battery in place and plug in the trek to an outlet will it charge my batteries?? or should I take them all out and have them on a trickle charger?
Thanks
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Old 09-20-2019, 05:35 AM   #2
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That is a good move only if you have upgraded your converter to a modern three stage one and have an Echo Charger (Xantrex) or Trik-L-Start on the chassis battery.

Without those upgrades the answer is no. Take them out and put them on a smart charger of some sort. A dumb triclkle charger is not good enough.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:51 AM   #3
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If the batteries are completely disconnected (no parasitic loads), they will last many months without any charging at all. If they are fully charged, there is also no reason to remove them from the vehicle. A lead acid battery at 100% SOC will not freeze until ambient reaches about-80 degrees F. Even at 40%, they are safe well below zero.

Just disconnect them and forget it.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:09 AM   #4
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I have one car store in the garage for 9 months every year. In preparation for the nine-month long storage I disconnect fully charged battery. After that period I connect the battery and the engine starts in seconds.
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalanute@live.com View Post
Im about to store my 95 roadTrek and usually I take out the shore batteries (2 of them) and the main battery in the engine and place them on a trickle charger.
My question is if I just leave every battery in place and plug in the trek to an outlet will it charge my batteries?? or should I take them all out and have them on a trickle charger?
Thanks

This is question that comes up often, along with the related issue of if full time float or trickle charging is needed or best to use, compared to let sit/recharge periodically.


Here is what Lifeline says about storage of their AGM batteries


Quote:
While in storage, batteries should be boost charged every 90 days or when the open circuit voltage (OCV) drops to 12.5 volts for a 12-volt battery (6.25 volts for a 6-volt battery and 2.08 volts for a 2V battery). This OCV corresponds to approximately 75% state of charge. Boost charge batteries using a constant voltage charger set at 14.4 to 15.0 volts for a 12-volt battery(7.2 to 7.5 volts for a 6-volt battery and 2.40 to 2.50 for a 2 volt battery). The boost charge should be applied until the charging current falls below 0.5 percent of the batterys 20 hour rated capacity (0.5 amps for a 100 Ah battery).

And here is what Trojan says about their wet and AGM batteries


Quote:
The following tips will help ensure that your batteries emerge from storage in good condition:Charge batteries before placing them in storage.Store in a cool and dry location, protected from the elements.Disconnect from equipment to eliminate potential parasitic loads that may discharge the battery.Batteries gradually self-discharge during transit and storage, so monitor the specific gravity or open-circuit voltage of flooded batteries every 4 - 6 weeks. Monitor the open circuit voltage for AGM or gel batteries every 2 - 3 months. Batteries in storage should be charged when they decline to the following state of charge (SOC):o Flooded batteries: 70% SOCo AGM/gel batteries: 75% SOC

I think the recommendations are likely pretty good, but don't address whether full time float would be better.


Most AGMs are rated to self discharge at 1-3% a month, so would not ever get to the 75% SOC in 6 months of the recommendations. Lifeline does put in the 90 day limit for no recharge, though, so wouldn't make that.


Wet cells are rated at 5-10% per month so would get there in 6 months.


I do think the time they spend in a discharged state may cause some damage if they go as long a 6 months, but it is really hard to guess how much risk there is.



All the manufacturers have a general recharging rule they want you to follow that is basically you need to recharge a battery as soon as possible after discharging it. The storage recommendations don't follow that rule so that is a conflict. How long you have after discharging before the sulfates start to harden and get impossible to convert back at charging has not been definitively agreed on, though, from what I have seen. Most do put the time much shorter than 3-6 months, though, usually at maybe a week or so.


Since self discharge is continuous, you have sliding scale of how long any amount of your discharge has been sitting. At the end of 6 months, you would have the first 1-3% having sat for 6 months and the last 1-3% only one month. If the recharge quickly or lose the capacity recommendation is correct, you would lose some capacity in storage, especially in the capacity that had been discharged the longest.



I think this may be why some chargers do a continuous float, but then do a full voltage charge for a short time periodically, to maintain that slight amount of overcharge capacity that is between float voltage and absorption.


I normally float ours over the winter, and since we store at home in a heated shop I can get to it all the time, I will occasionally run a 20% discharge/recharge to .5%C amps cycle on it. Probably do that cycle 3-4 times over a winter. I think this covers most angles, but have no proof of it being best.


If I had to guess at an order of best storage, based on mostly what sounds logical. Better first.


*Float with occasional full voltage boost


*Continuous float


*Uncharged for 2-3 weeks and recharged


*Same as previous with more time between charges up to the full 6 months of storage


As with all of the charging stuff, getting a known full charge at the end of storage would be essential. With wet cells, doing an equalization would certainly help reverse any capacity loss that happened while sitting.


Most of the smart chargers will not get you a full charge consistently, so having a monitor will tell you if do, and if not completely full a long drive to top off on the alternator may be in order.


For those that have battery monitors, you can get an indirect idea if the storage has caused any degradation of the batteries, but it is not as accurate as doing a capacity test. Get the batteries full to your transition amps setting, let float for 2-3 days and check the amps. If that amp reading is higher than it was with the same procedure done before storage, you have gotten some unknown amount of degradation over storage.


It is very difficult to know if there is anything bad happening from storage as the batteries will almost never be too low to function after 6 months and the losses per storage are not going to be very large if they do happen, with worst cases maybe 5-10% of capacity, and usually less than that, I think. Nobody does capacity tests, so unless you were right on the edge of capacity for your use patterns, you would not know anything happened.
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:27 PM   #6
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Life is too short...
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Old 09-20-2019, 12:30 PM   #7
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Just like Booster to hit us with the facts!

As a conclusion, Kalanute, let us know what you are gonna do.

I have solar in Phoenix with a dumb controller. I just switch it to 13.2 volt float. Parasitic loads attached. No long term storage or cold temperature issues.

In storage even the monitor current adds up (1 ah per day) as does the DC to DC charger standby current.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:11 PM   #8
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Hi all please help me as on below quarry.
If I remove the battery from the car for one day, will it damage the computer box?
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jill Ellis View Post
Hi all please help me as on below quarry.
If I remove the battery from the car for one day, will it damage the computer box?

Nope, it can sit forever without a battery in it.



You will have to reprogram your radio stations and it is best to let the engine idle for 10 minutes so it can relearn the operating parameters, but you can also just drive it and have it do the learning there. It may run funny for a while though if you do drive it right away.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
Just like Booster to hit us with the facts!

As a conclusion, Kalanute, let us know what you are gonna do.

I have solar in Phoenix with a dumb controller. I just switch it to 13.2 volt float. Parasitic loads attached. No long term storage or cold temperature issues.

In storage even the monitor current adds up (1 ah per day) as does the DC to DC charger standby current.

Yep, it is my nature


Bottom line, I think is that if you have OEM quality charging (Tripplite charger, no alternator control, no solar) the charging inadequacies and use/abuse are probably so large that you would never notice a long sit without charging type life reduction.


If you have top line charging systems and don't abuse on the use side, then the storage type issues could become significant.


Sometimes it is hard to relate to both scenarios and in this case for "normal" systems the batteries often only last 3 camping seasons, so two storage events. For those that take very careful care of their batteries and have the best equipment that may be 10 camping seasons so 9 storage events.


As with so much of this stuff "it all depends....."
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:00 PM   #11
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When my RT 210 is in storage I put a "Battery Tender" float charger... look the brand name up up on Amazon... on directly to the posts on my chassis battery and another on the house batteries. I leave the invertor off and even turn off the house batteries to the coach (less chance of a fire or a short) with the switch near the control panel. No need to unhook anything. Just let the float chargers do their job and my batteries last for years. I have been doing this for years on old cars, lawn mowers, you name it, and I have had batteries last 10 years. It is simple and effective.
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Old 09-26-2019, 05:21 PM   #12
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I used to remove the batteries but it became a PITA. Now I have trickle charger pigtails connected permanently to the batteries which are routed so I have easy access to them to attach extension wires to the trickle charger.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:00 PM   #13
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What is Honda doing to get better the battery on the new C RVs I'm concerned in buying one but I am not going to buy one if the battery does not improve.
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Battery Question

I, too, got a 1995 RoadTrek - back in February of this year.

After researching to replace the single dead battery, I ended up replacing the Magnatek converter/charger with the Progressive Industries direct replacement - the 4600 Series. This is a multi-stage charger that will deal with trickle charging during storage months without hurting your batteries, and will work with the latest batteries as well.

I also installed a battery monitor at the same time along with circuit protection (to protect the RV from bad shore or generator power). And I wired in a 2nd battery in the closest storage area so I could put in 2 6V 225Ah batteries.

Finally, I also put in a battery disconnect switch. Happy so far....
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