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Old 09-21-2018, 09:18 PM   #1
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Default BattleBorn battery warranty

I bought a BattleBorn (Dragonfly) LiFEPO4 battery over a year ago, it came with a 3yr warranty. Today they just announced they are increasing their warranty to 10yrs, retroactive for all existing purchases.

https://www.facebook.com/battlebornb...18643528229503
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:52 AM   #2
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Either an act of desperation or an act of supreme confidence in their product. I have no reason to think it is the former.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:19 AM   #3
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....or the Li market is moving forward from early adapters to main stream. It is a matter of time when lower cost product from far east will come possibly shaking the market. There is one member on this forum connected with the Chinese tools batteries factory subliminally engaging in RV discussions, lets hope for decent prices.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:57 PM   #4
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I have two Battleborn batteries, 100AH. One 7 months old and one 4 months old. They have been in use daily with no problems. They haven't been discharged below 55%, are charged at 90 amps, and seem to be very happy.

I do need to try the 30% state of charge thing one of these days. Just haven't needed it.
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Old 09-25-2018, 04:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rectalogic View Post
I bought a BattleBorn (Dragonfly) LiFEPO4 battery over a year ago, it came with a 3yr warranty. Today they just announced they are increasing their warranty to 10yrs, retroactive for all existing purchases.

https://www.facebook.com/battlebornb...18643528229503
Big news! What kind of RVs do you have? And for how many LiFePO4 batteries once a time?
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Old 09-27-2018, 08:27 PM   #6
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....or the Li market is moving forward from early adapters to main stream. It is a matter of time when lower cost product from far east will come possibly shaking the market. There is one member on this forum connected with the Chinese tools batteries factory subliminally engaging in RV discussions, lets hope for decent prices.
All of these US companies are just cheap Chinese LiFePO4 batteries with a label and a warranty slapped on them.
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:14 PM   #7
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I see the warranty everywhere but nowhere do I see the terms of the warranty. What are they?
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:16 PM   #8
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This is what I just copied from there website.
WARRANTY POLICY
In the unlikely event, you are having an issue with one of our batteries we have developed a straight forward warranty policy to help answer any questions you may have.

Battle Born Batteries offers a 3 year manufacturers defect warranty from the date of purchase. This warranty does not cover negligence or misuse of the battery. If it is deemed that battery was used improperly, you will be subject to a $150 an hour repair charge plus parts and shipping.

We also warrant all other complimentary products (inverters, converters, chargers etc) we sell are free from defect for 30 days from the date of purchase. After that time it is the responsibility of our manufacturing partners and a standard manufacturer’s warranty applies (1 year from date of purchase, unless otherwise stated by the manufacturer).
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Old 09-27-2018, 09:37 PM   #9
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Battle Born Batteries offers a 3 year manufacturers defect warranty from the date of purchase. This warranty does not cover negligence or misuse of the battery.
That could be a worthless warranty. "Manufacturers defect" could be defined very narrowly, and "negligence or misuse" could be interpretted very broadly.
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Old 09-27-2018, 11:29 PM   #10
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That could be a worthless warranty. "Manufacturers defect" could be defined very narrowly, and "negligence or misuse" could be interpretted very broadly.
Not really. Under US warranty law, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer, not the consumer, so they would have to PROVE that you caused the defect.

Moreover, such niceties are not merely academic. The law also provides for the collection of legal fees if you win a lawsuit, so there are plenty of spec lawyers around who will help you for free if you have any kind of a case.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:03 AM   #11
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Not really. Under US warranty law, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer, not the consumer, so they would have to PROVE that you caused the defect.

Moreover, such niceties are not merely academic. The law also provides for the collection of legal fees if you win a lawsuit, so there are plenty of spec lawyers around who will help you for free if you have any kind of a case.
I worry they increased the warranty period so as to gain a competitive advantage over the other US companies who are offering an identical Chinese LiFePO4 “drop in” battery. Perhaps no warranty claims have occured so they are gambling.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:06 AM   #12
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I worry they increased the warranty period so as to gain a competitive advantage over the other US companies who are offering an identical Chinese LiFePO4 “drop in” battery. Perhaps no warranty claims have occured so they are gambling.
Could be. But this is not unusual. A warranty has a certain cost and a certain marketing value. If the former is less than the latter, the rational thing to do is to offer the warranty. It is common for exactly the same product to be sold at two different price points with the only difference being the length of the warranty.

Now, whether these guys actually know the cost of these warranties is different question.
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Old 09-28-2018, 02:37 AM   #13
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Battleborn appears to be the old Firefly, which has been around for quite a while. Most of the Firefly literature was pretty normal tech type stuff and explanations of how the batteries are made by hand in California, etc and seemed tuned to the upper end of the battery customers. With Xantrex and Volta kind of instantly pushing all the "drop in" lithium batteries into second or third tier customer level, they probably were feeling the pinch. Much more advanced systems taking the high end, and the low end imports taking the bottom away.



The Battleborn site is a typical, over claimed, wrong or distorted information, hype type site full of rah-rah, so they definitely have changed their image and don't even seem to want Battleborn to be associated with Firefly it appears, as they have a separate address in another state. Google maps shows it and it is just very small place, couldn't really have manufacturing in it most likely, no sign on the building (if the pic is new enough).


There was some chatter that came up in a search I did a while ago as to if Battleborn was really made in the US, with lots of opinions both ways, but no facts so hard to tell. Since they are now needing to be more competitive with the imports, I wouldn't be surprised if they would be outsourced overseas, but built to Firelfly specs, or they could just start importing subassemblies and doing the final assembly here. There is no way they will be able to compete if they use a good BMS and quality cells, and build it in the US, as as the imports may be using much lower quality parts.


I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the 10 year warranty, as the batteries aren't expensive enough for a legal fight to make it worth while for the customer or a commission attorney. Small claims would be more likely the way you would wind up going, but if they have set up the business as single building in a single state, you might need to do the claim there, making it prohibitive. Companies are getting very good at this kind of dodge, now that the internet selling makes it easy to sell in areas with no local store or dealers, which is often a small claim requirement. Just the way the warranty was worded makes me think they have very little intention of doing much battery warranty replacements.


On edit--I just went back in to find the remote location for the Battleborn, and they now show only one address, in Reno, for Battleborn and Dragonfly. No mention of each other on their websites, though, and the building sign on Google maps says Dragonfly Energy. It appears that both brands, if Dragonfly is still selling are based in Reno.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:52 AM   #14
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Found this article, Chinese battery maker has 1/3 of the company, so they may be getting made overseas.


https://renewablesnow.com/news/china...gonfly-530901/
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Old 09-28-2018, 07:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostalli View Post
All of these US companies are just cheap Chinese LiFePO4 batteries with a label and a warranty slapped on them.
Really? Which brands? As we all known, because of the different composition of LiFePO4 batteries, the cost of LiFePO4 batteries are actually a bit expensive right now due to the fact that it is not widely available or used at present. It's just at the very beginning of the LiFePO4 batteries. And there are just a few LiFePO4 batteries manufacturers (Less than 10 suppliers around the world, 5-6 in the overseas, less than 3 in the China).

If you have some ways to low the cost, I think most of the LiFePO4 batteries suppliers and users will thanks to your contribution to the development of this kind of batteries. And then there will be more and more RV owners who have used the LiFePO4 batteries right now.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:15 PM   #16
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IIRC, the Firefly literature says the batteries are built from cylindrical cells, which likely would add to the cost and cost them space. The exception may be their newer GC2 replacement that looks to be more compact. I think the cylindrical cells are also used on other drop in style batteries, also.
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