Charger and inverter settings

[booster]

More information on Marko's non forcible PD issue.

From the PD 9200 remote pendant sheet

The Manual Switch allows the operator to check to see if the Charge Wizard is operating properly as follows:
Press and hold the Manual Switch and shortly the Indicator Light will remain “ON” all of the time, indicating the unit went into the BOOST MODE. Continue to hold the switch and shortly the Indicator Light will start blinking rapidly (every 2-3 seconds). This indicates the unit went into the NORMAL MODE. Continue to hold the switch and the unit will go into the STORAGE MODE, and the Indicator Light will start blinking slowly (every 6-8 seconds). Once the switch button is released, the Charge Wizard will again read the RV battery voltage, and after some period of time, automatically select the proper mode of operation

From the optional Charge Wizard for 9100 series

The Charge Wizard functions are fully automatic however, you can test the Charge Wizard’s functions manually by pressing and holding the MODE SELECT SWITCH BUTTON DOWN. When the button is first pressed, the light will be “ON” all the time, indicating it is in the BOOST Mode (converter output 14.4 VDC). If you continue to hold the button, the unit will switch to the NORMAL Mode (converter output 13.6 VDC) and the light will blink from once to many times a second. If you continue to hold the button down the unit will go into the STORAGE Mode (converter output 13.2 VDC) and the light will blink approximately every six (6) to eight ( seconds. NOTE: No matter which mode you manually select, the Charge Wizard will automatically return to the NORMAL Mode of operation after 4 hours.

This pretty much says it all. The 9200 takes it back to what it thinks you need based on battery voltage, where the normal Charge Wizard on a 9100 stays where you put it for 4 hours or until you change it. It lets you get the model based on how you want to use it, but they sure don't make it clear. I missed it completely in the times I read the literature.

[markopolo]

Re: the PD converter/charger in my RV - PD4045 http://www.progressivedyn.com/all_in_one_pd4000.html

I was surprised it didn't go to 14.4v mode last night. I think you're right about it being a voltage trigger. It gets harder to get the volts down with a larger battery bank though. The voltage bounces back so quickly even after large loads.

There must be another way to trigger it. I've seen where I've unplugged the van, driven it out the the garage to wash it, put it back in the garage and plugged it back in and seen 14.4V mode. That's when I don't want it so I installed a switch to force Gel mode which drops the voltage by approximately 0.4V for each of the three voltage based modes.

I'll try unplugging the van. That's how I'd usually do it. It was just quicker to flip breakers when testing last night.

Maybe a certain amount of time unplugged needs to be met or time plus voltage. Or unplug + battery disconnect switch.

This could lead to a converter vs. inverter/charger discussion. The converter can supply its (or near its) rated amps at 13.6V. Running a DC load like a pump won't trigger a voltage mode change.

I'd like to hear from inverter/charger owners to see if they notice any voltage swings when plugged in and running larger DC loads. I think it could affect RV's with smaller battery banks but would likely not affect units with larger battery banks.

It could be that the inverter/chargers are inverter/converter/chargers

[booster]

Does yours have a pendant like the 9100 series? I would guess it would because the built in Charge Wizard.

On the inverter/charger/converter, I think most of us can't get a load big enough to drop the voltage, unless the charger is putting most of it's output into very low, big, batteries. You will then see whatever voltage the batteries, plus the load take, cause. It will vary with load on or off at that point, I used to see it on our 40 amp Blue Sea charger if we were plugged in with low batteries and I ran the air compressor, which is our biggest load. Our other loads are so tiny, you rarely see anything. With the new 100 amp charger, the batteries will also pin the output of the charger, so we probably would see the variation there also. I doubt anybody would have enough DC load to go past the charger output, in normal use, if the batteries are full, and in that case you would see full voltage all the time.

[markopolo]

No pendant and no option for one on the PD4045.
For a load trigger I just thought of something that could help. I can disconnect 55% of the total battery bank capacity by turning off DC breakers to get the voltage drop quicker.

[WillyCanada]

Can anyone give an opinion on which AC unit they prefer when boon docking? It seems one up fitter uses King Tec only. We are thinking aux. alternator combined with 320 watt solar but like I said we are amateurs!
Thanks. Calgary

[booster]

Originally Posted by WillyCanada

Can anyone give an opinion on which AC unit they prefer when boon docking? It seems one up fitter uses King Tec only. We are thinking aux. alternator combined with 320 watt solar but like I said we are amateurs!
Thanks. Calgary

Are you talking about running the AC of off batteries?

[WillyCanada]

We were hoping to if only to cool down in the evening

[Davydd]

With what I know now being living in Minnesota, not quite as far north as Alberta, that if I were building my own DIY Class B, I would not bother with air conditioning. It is way too easy for a northerner to follow the weather and never need it. This year we put 28,000 miles in over 34 states and 6 Canadian provinces covering 152 nights and not once did we use or felt we needed our air conditioner. I see it mostly for resale value which I don't care much about right now. Good ventilation which we get from 6 window vents, the sliding door with a screen and a 10 speed MaxxAir ceiling fan has been more than adequate traveling south in winter, spring and fall, and staying north in summer. If you want to do serious boondocking or just not plugging into shore power you should pay attention to following the weather.

In 10 years and over 150,000 miles in Class B travel and camping I could probably list less than a half dozen times I was glad to be able to turn an air conditioner on. Like I said, you probably need it for resale value but if DIY it might not make a difference. Of course Southerners can ignore this observation.

[markopolo]

I might have found a way to trick the PD4045 to go to 14.4V mode in the RV. I tried several things and combinations of things to no avail. I sort of gave up and put a separate charger on the bank to get them fully charged after the load testing.

I didn't really give up on the PD unit. With the batteries charging on the separate charger, I disconnected the the bank from the PD unit via a master switch then shut down the PD unit and started it up again via the 15A 110V breaker. On the solar controller display I observed the "boot up" of the PD4045. It flashed 14.4V doing some test I guess then went to 13.6V mode. I "rebooted" the PD with the batteries still disconnected and saw the 14.4V flash and then it chose 14.4V mode.

I rotated the switch to connect the batteries to the PD4045 (which were already at 14V on the other charger) and the PD unit stayed in 14.4V mode and completed that cycle.

If this works again then it is an easy way to force 14.4V mode. (no need for the separate charger) I don't want to run another 14.4V cycle right now but will update this topic if & when the need arises to force 14.4V mode again.

The 14.4V cycle ended at or after 0.3 amps at 14.4V on the Trimetric display. That's were it was the last time I observed it before seeing it in 13.6V mode.

I had the "Charged" criteria notification on the Trimetric set at 1 amp or less needed to support 14.4v but the light on the Trimetric never started to flash. I suspect it has to do with rounding voltage up for the 1/10th volt display and the PD outputting a fraction less than 14.4V. I reprogrammed the Trimetric "Charged" criteria to 14.3V & 1 amp and the charged indicator light began to flash. I think that is acceptable as it is pretty close to 14.4V if my understanding of this is correct.

Additional note:
In an earlier and separate test, I connected a different PD4045 to a single battery that was on a float charger. The PD unit chose 13.6V mode. I powered off the PD and connected it to a battery that was at 12.5V and the PD chose 14.4V mode. I powered off the PD and connected it to the battery on the float charger again and the PD unit remember it was to do a 14.4V cycle and stayed in that mode.

[markopolo]

Just to add - I'm going to wait to see if the boost to 14.4V for 15 minutes every 21 hours can meet the Trimetric Charged setpoint criteria before doing any other work or system tests.

[booster]

That is interesting, and handy. I hadn't thought about the fact that the PD is primarily a power supply so shouldn't need a battery in the system to start up like dedicated chargers do. Your procedure just cycles the PD on a totally dead (really shut off) battery, so it goes t 14.4v. When you turn the battery on, the PD is already way above the battery voltage so doesn't even see the battery voltage.

Very good thinking on your part

[markopolo]

No champagne until it works a second time

It's still only one mode so I'd like to add a pendant to switch between the three modes at will.

There are two PD pendants:

PD92201 for the 9200 series with built in Charge Wizard. It is just a switch that allows you to pick modes.

PD9105 TCMS Charge Wizard for the 9100 series - it turns the basic power supply into a smart charger.

DryCamper11 on RV.net has posted some useful info: RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Tech Issues: PD or Iota for my upgrade?

In this photo - PD9280_Top With Labels Photo by DryCamper11 | Photobucket - of his shows connection point H3 in the lower left corner. It is for the PD92201 switch.

And this shows his notes: PD9280_Bottom With Labels Photo by DryCamper11 | Photobucket (lower right)

The board on my PD4045 has the H3 location:

H3.JPG

Initial attempts with a paper clip didn't do anything so I need to do some soldering. It all depends on if the processor chip on the PD4045 board is the same or not.

[booster]

It appears from what Drycamper11 says that using that switch point makes is cycle through the stages, but it didn't sound like it stayed in the stage, but went back to whatever it though was right. That is the way the 9200 pendant works also, it appears, based on what I posted earlier. The only one that seems to actually allow you to select, and stay in, a mode is the one for the 9100 series where the entire "smart" part is in the pendant.

[Davydd]

Are you sure the Charge Wizard pendant does anything other than tell you what is going on? I don't recall any ability to do anything but watch the blinking lights to know what mode you are in. I installed one on my PD 9100 series converter in my 2005 Pleasure-way Plateau.

It is easy to just plug in. My converter was in the wheel well ottoman bench.


I snaked the pendent through and mounted it inside my battery disconnect switch cabinet box outside the ottoman bench. Looking at it was mostly just curiosty as to what was going on and what mode you were in.

[wincrasher]

When I looked at getting a pendant for the 9245, the materials said you could switch it to boost mode (14.4v). There was a time limit on how long it would stay there.

[Davydd]

Maybe they changed because 8 or 9 years ago all they did was give smart charging to the PD 9100 series that was built in the PD 9200 series.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Are you sure the Charge Wizard pendant does anything other than tell you what is going on?

Did you read this post from earlier? It explains exactly what the 9100 and 9200 pendants do. With copy/pasted from PD site.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post36946

[markopolo]

I just read that post again and think I understand better it this time.

This bit is really not clear though (9200 pendant):

Once the switch button is released, the Charge Wizard will again read the RV battery voltage, and after some period of time, automatically select the proper mode of operation

I'd expect it to resume automatic function after a period of time. Really need to know how long.

I think I'll still try to see if I can get pendant functions to work with my PD4045.

[booster]

"A period of time" leaves it all pretty wide open, for sure. The 9100 pendant says specifically 4 hours of whatever you choose. If you get them to work, at least you will be able to see how long that is.

On edit--I just went back and looked, and Drycamper11 listed 3 and 6 seconds.

[markopolo]

This explains it a bit better:

9200 series pendant.JPG

It's from: http://www.progressivedyn.com/prod_d...ndant_card.pdf

I think it is:

Quick press of the button: Boost mode
3 second press: Normal mode
6 second press: Storage mode

It probably stays in Boost mode for 4 hours. Then 30 hours in Normal mode. Then it goes to Storage mode if no battery usage detected. Equalize mode (15 min boost to 14.4V every 21 hours) is an automatic subroutine of Storage mode.