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Old 05-13-2018, 03:28 AM   #1
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Default Lead Acid, Lithium Hybrid Comment thread

Just a thread for question or comment.

A major advantage, so far, is access to the 80%-100% Lead Acid charge level for those without solar. 44 amp hours is a lot of power that the generator people have difficulty getting. The under hood generator folks may have a shot at it.

We will experiment with procedures to reduce intervention during the charge cycle. After the generator run turn on the DC to DC charger with solar directed to the Lithium battery. I can't do that now, without monitoring, because the solar controller is old and dumb.

We will see how it works just keeping the LA at 100% and using the Lithium. Two hundred amp hours of power available is a lot.

My thought is the system arguably matches the usable power of 600 AH of AGM batteries.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:05 PM   #2
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I've added the second lithium battery and the 1500 watt whole house inverter. Will give results on the other thread when I get them. I'm home for a few days and not using any power.

What I am interested in is other's comments. It appears that as good as the dual system appears to me to be there isn't much interest in anyone else doing it. Why? Cost? Space? Effort? It certainly was a lot of work but it functions so very, very well. Both banks at 100% every evening with a minimal generator run.

What am I missing? B's are made for moving, not sitting, and this is a B forum. Maybe that is the difference.

I intend to put it in a B this winter. There certainly is less space to work with.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
I've added the second lithium battery and the 1500 watt whole house inverter. Will give results on the other thread when I get them. I'm home for a few days and not using any power.

What I am interested in is others comments. It appears that as good as the dual system appears to me to be there isn't much interest in anyone else doing it. Why? Cost? Space? Effort? It certainly was a lot of work but it functions so very, very well. Both banks at 100% every evening with a minimal generator run.

What am I missing? B's are made for moving, not sitting, and this is a B forum. Maybe that is the difference.

I intend to put it in a B this winter. There certainly is less space to work with.

I think we touched on the seeming lack of interest in some of the early discussions, and likely still true. Most people either don't know, or don't care, that they are not getting full capacity and are shortening the life of their batteries by continually short charging them.


I don't think the system will ever just take off on it's own, but if the Hymer setup proves to work out well, and the folks realize it is an improvement, and Hymer pushes that information out to the public, then it may gain some traction.



A ground up design of a system that carefully matched and tested compatibility of the parts and capacities could probably be totally plug and play, which would be necessary for large acceptance.


It almost seems like anyone who is interested enough in improved battery systems is also willing to go with the extra cost and complexity of the much larger and much more expensive lithium systems.
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Old 05-22-2018, 02:38 AM   #4
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Hi hbn7hj,

I may just not be recalling and it is in the other thread, but what prompted your interest. Hey, and enough to pull it off!

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Old 05-22-2018, 03:44 AM   #5
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This is a post from a class C forum when they told me 4 AGMs were a better deal (not so) and said they would rather buy a Victron system at three times the price. (Backing up Booster's comments) All in all they blew it off. The hybrid system is so superior to a large AGM bank. The lead acid battery box is out in the cold, may as well put something useful in it. The lithium battery charges (5 times?) faster than lead acid reducing generator times considerably. The DC to DC charger is also a major asset. Both banks at 100% every night, rain or shine.

"I'm not tinkering. This is a full blown, so far successful, effort to increase the power capabilities of the RV without making changes beyond my capability. The rapidly increasing park space rental rate is the motivation. I could pay $50/day with no seasonal option but I refuse, so far. Off grid in cold temps are a challange and, yes, I have a catalytic heater which uses no electrical power.

My friends here in Moab had an 8 day stay (Diesel pusher) at $75/day. The place was booked. Supply and demand run the show and if I owned a park I'd charge that, too.

Soon I expect the off grid locations to start charging or increase rates. The two week stay limit wasn't there or was ignored not too many years ago. Will the geezer rate go away? Eventually I expect I'll have to change my destinations. The good news to me is many new RVs are not capable of off grid operation with their compressor fridges and limited battery bank. For $1300 I'm still in the game though I will expand to $3000."
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Old 05-22-2018, 04:59 AM   #6
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I travel in my B, I sit in my C. Four years ago the $15/day plus electric seasonal rate went to $50/day, no seasonal rate. The parks remain full, much to my surprise. When I plugged in power didn't matter, now it does, and if you want sat TV or even DVDs in the evening it takes a lot of generator time the next day.

I don't like AGM batteries. Everyone I know has ruined a set. I don't have the skills or desire to hang a large lead acid bank underneath the coach.

Last winter I spent a week at the Grand Canyon Mather campground.
Their generator hours are 8 to 10AM and 6 to 8PM. My guest was an almost Los Angeles Laker (blown out by injury, 6'7" so he had a shot.) He wanted to watch basketball in the evening. We did it but the batteries were severely depleted and couldn't recover the next day in the generator time allowed for the next night. It was restrictive to have to stay with the coach to run the generator for the two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening. The lithium option with the DC to DC charger solves all these problems with much less battery weight.

There are other problems to staying off grid. Not using the black tank stretches my stay time to two weeks when I have to move, anyhow.

That was my mindset when Booster mentioned a hybrid system and GeorgeRa mentioned the DC to DC charger. From there it all went together.

I spent six weeks in Moab putting it together and testing it with one lithium battery. It worked. Both banks at 100% every evening in cold temperatures. I went through 36 gallons of propane which is another issue.
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Old 05-22-2018, 12:48 PM   #7
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"I went through 36 gallons of propane which is another issue."

Then I'm looking forward to your next thread.

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Old 06-26-2018, 12:11 AM   #8
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200 AH lithium system is working well in parallel with the LA system.With low nighttime temperatures in the 30's I find that a heated mattress pad (Electrowarmth AC version) overnight with inverter consumes around 30Ah per person.

The furnace takes more power than that set at 55F and consumes lots of propane. Use the mattress pad and keep the furnace off. Warming the coach in the morning loses some of the advantages, of course, but you are not heating a sieve all night.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:47 PM   #9
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You lost me at "generator." Never. We just got home from a 6-week trip. Never plugged in once even when it was occasionally available.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:57 PM   #10
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You lost me at "generator." Never. We just got home from a 6-week trip. Never plugged in once even when it was occasionally available.
Yep, but when you don't move, have satellite TV, nights in the 30's and only 200 watts of solar it has to be. There are some days 200 watts is enough but not many.

With lithium the generator runs are mercifully short. Thirty minutes or less. The morning drones are gone.
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