Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-29-2019, 08:36 PM   #1
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default LiFeMgPo4 Battery

Before we ruin the winter weekend thread.

What is known about this lithium technology? I'm not finding much.

I'd prefer the propane fuel cell but it appears to be made of unobtanium.

I'm happy with the LiFePo4 battery but this different chemistry may be just what the drop in crowd needs.

I'd really like cold fusion. Wouldn't that be fine, a nuclear powered B.

2/1D + 3/1T → 4 2He (3.5 MeV) + 1/0n (14.1 MeV)

The equation doesn't copy very well but is in Wikipedia.
Somebody is waiting to hear from us when we get it done!
__________________

hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 09:14 PM   #2
Bud
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: LA
Posts: 871
Default

"propane fuel cell but it appears to be made of unobtanium"

No, No roadtrek told us it would be available for purchase in, well I forget the number of months, or was it weeks?

Bud
__________________

Bud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 10:25 PM   #3
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
"propane fuel cell but it appears to be made of unobtanium"

No, No roadtrek told us it would be available for purchase in, well I forget the number of months, or was it weeks?

Bud
WATT is a startup that apparently had their first big deal with Hymer. Yet another victim of the current mess.
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 10:37 PM   #4
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
WATT is a startup that apparently had their first big deal with Hymer. Yet another victim of the current mess.
Yep. Forget Hymer, sell one to me! I expect it to be money thrown away (short life) but I'd like to play with it.
hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 11:10 PM   #5
Platinum Member
 
Boxster1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 907
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
Yep. Forget Hymer, sell one to me! I expect it to be money thrown away (short life) but I'd like to play with it.
Contact them -- they will probably sell you one...

https://www.wattfuelcell.com/
__________________
2013 Airstream Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter 3500 170Ext
Formerly: 1973 Dodge B300 DIY pop-top conversion
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 11:27 PM   #6
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
Contact them -- they will probably sell you one...

https://www.wattfuelcell.com/

We need to find out who will be buying the Roadtrek stock of the units, as they might be just a part liquidator and move them quickly and cheap.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2019, 11:45 PM   #7
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
We need to find out who will be buying the Roadtrek stock of the units, as they might be just a part liquidator and move them quickly and cheap.
My summer travels begin April 1 but I am interested. Should someone find that golden bit of info post it or PM me.

Barring that I'll begin my pursuit next winter. May even drive to Pennylvania (In the winter, heh, heh.) You guys sure do know how to call a guys bluff, but it isn't all bluff.

Gotta figure out where to put it and plumb propane and a vent to it. Probably start with a propane bottle in the back yard with a fire extinquisher and a battery to charge. Maybe put it in the class C first in a storage compartment.
hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 01:50 AM   #8
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
Before we ruin the winter weekend thread.

What is known about this lithium technology? I'm not finding much.

I'd prefer the propane fuel cell but it appears to be made of unobtanium.

I'm happy with the LiFePo4 battery but this different chemistry may be just what the drop in crowd needs.

I'd really like cold fusion. Wouldn't that be fine, a nuclear powered B.

2/1D + 3/1T → 4 2He (3.5 MeV) + 1/0n (14.1 MeV)

The equation doesn't copy very well but is in Wikipedia.
Somebody is waiting to hear from us when we get it done!
Lithium iron Manganese Phosphate (LiFeMgPO4). You can see them in both the Veda and Bucky videos by Advanced RV. They are real. You needn't have started a thread. You could have just asked. Or just go to:

https://lithiumwerks.com/valence-bat...les/xp-module/
__________________
Davydd
2015 Advanced RV Ocean One Mercedes Benz Sprinter
Previous Class Bs:
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 02:11 AM   #9
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default

I found Valence but your link is better. So one has to get the battery and BMS. Gotta call for price I guess. It does look like the drop in answer except for not having a built in BMS.

138AH for group 27! Haven't found the temp specs yet.
hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 02:17 AM   #10
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,380
Default

I'm having trouble finding charge and storage temperature specs for this chemistry. Anybody have a link to this info?
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 02:21 AM   #11
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd View Post
Lithium iron Manganese Phosphate (LiFeMgPO4).
Just to avoid confusion: Mg is magnesium, not manganese (there are battery chemistries using each).
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:58 AM   #12
Platinum Member
 
GeorgeRa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,479
Default

LithiumWerks acquired Valence which is approved in medical field with their proprietary technology of LiMgFePO4 batteries, and it is Mg not Mn.

https://lithiumwerks.com/lithium-wer...hnologies-inc/
GeorgeRa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 04:39 AM   #13
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default

Storage to -40F (certainly an improvement) but nothing about use temperatures.
hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 02:49 PM   #14
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
Storage to -40F (certainly an improvement) but nothing about use temperatures.
Do you have a link to this spec?
(not being skeptical, just having trouble finding engineering data on this chemistry. Seems to be kind of obscure.)
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:06 PM   #15
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Do you have a link to this spec?
(not being skeptical, just having trouble finding engineering data on this chemistry. Seems to be kind of obscure.)

IIRC this was also mentioned in the past, probably in regards to ARV and cold weather issues. If ARV is using them, they may have much better documentation available.


I also did a bit of searching and the Valence and other sites seem to be staying away from any temp related statements in general, as do many of the lithium battery sites. Not much information out there on the mg batteries.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:42 PM   #16
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona, Tempe
Posts: 629
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Do you have a link to this spec?
(not being skeptical, just having trouble finding engineering data on this chemistry. Seems to be kind of obscure.)
Nothing typed. It is in the ARV video. I tried to download the specs after registering on the Valence or parent company's website and it didn't work. Booster summed it up: the temp data is not written. The BMS spec is supposed to be available for download, too, and the info would be there.

Help us out Davydd. We believe it is a better battery. If one could charge down to 0F then the drop in crowd just has to add the BMS. My wallet is doing endos!
hbn7hj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:48 PM   #17
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
We believe it is a better battery. If one could charge down to 0F then the drop in crowd just has to add the BMS.
I am less worried about low-temperature charging than I am about low-temperature storage. If I have power to charge the battery, I have power to heat it first. That would be a minor inconvenience. But, a prohibition of passive storage in frigid weather is a show-stopper for me.

If this chemistry lifts that restriction without adding other compromises, that would be a game-changer that would interest me very much. But, until it is published, it isn't real.
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:54 PM   #18
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,793
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
I am less worried about low-temperature charging than I am about low-temperature storage. If I have power to charge the battery, I have power to heat it first. That would be a minor inconvenience. But, a prohibition of storage in frigid weather is a show-stopper for me.

If this chemistry lifts that restriction without adding other compromises, that would be a game-changer that would interest me very much. But, until it is published, it isn't real.

I would tend to agree, especially if they also have the claimed float tolerance.


Of course, you have to have your vehicle setup to be able to heat the batteries without using them and also activate charging sources or get the batteries back online by alternate charging, both of which are doable off the van electronics.


I would have to say having the data published is good, but would not consider it accurate or correct until proven and backed up. Remember all the published wrong and exaggerated claims made for other lithiums early on, some of which is still out there?
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 04:26 PM   #19
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 4,586
Default

Nit pic my descriptions. I'm typing off the cuff sometimes without notes and my expressive aphasia is probably taking over. I do have a dead brain matter the size of a pinky finger cuticle that plays hell with me.

I'm sure Advanced RV is going to have a session on batteries at Advanced Fest this May and discuss them in detail. Last May they introduced them but spent a year developing them as the profile of the battery (group 31) appears to be a drop in but their design is not. They are also their first lithium battery inside instead of under the chassis. Their first was the van called Veda, a 144 this year. They had the batteries under development a long time before they rolled them out. Also, Sue Valentine's Bucky has the same, a bank of six batteries and a total of 828ah. You can watch the videos, stop motion and snap a still to study the setup.

As far as use temperatures I believe there are no restrictions on use. Lithium has restriction on charging below freezing. As before, ARV has batteries tied into the Silverleaf controller to manage and report temperatures and voltage and keep them at an optimum 41-42 degrees minimum, disconnect charging at below those temperatures, charge them when SOC goes below 20% or any set percentage you program, keep them in balance, set charging parameters to optimize cycles, etc. and you don't need an AGM battery to bring them back on.

FYI, last year at Advanced Fest they described their three battery systems as good, better and best. The good was what I have had for 4-1/2 years, the first build of their Elite Power Solutions GBS lithium batteries in an 800ah bank and also in 400ah, 600ah banks (and a few 1200ah), the better is the new Lithiumwerks Valence batteries and the best is the 56v Volta 13.5 kWh system designed with the Houghton air conditioner to truly last an overnight in air conditioning. The 330a Delta is used as the second alternator and a Xantrex Freedom SW 3012 3000W inverter for the Elite and Valence batteries. They no longer use the Nations alternator or the Outback 2800W inverter/charger. They went to the Xantrex when the price came down and found it had more communications capability with the Silverleaf a couple of years ago.

My plans are for an 828ah Valence battery system in a linear configuration under a single 30" wide bed. No solar. I made that decision a long time ago. I was pleasantly surprised Sue Valentine came to the same decision in Bucky. You don't need solar with high amp lithium battery banks and second alternators. It is just feel good save the planet thinking.
__________________
Davydd
2015 Advanced RV Ocean One Mercedes Benz Sprinter
Previous Class Bs:
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 04:50 PM   #20
Platinum Member
 
Boxster1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 907
Default

DAVYDD - thanks for the details. Nothing wrong with your brain considering details of your post above.
__________________

__________________
2013 Airstream Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter 3500 170Ext
Formerly: 1973 Dodge B300 DIY pop-top conversion
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×