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Old 01-06-2019, 09:04 PM   #21
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There are several Travato owners in the Facebook group that have replaced their OEM group 31 AGMs with Battleborn "drop in" replacements that are very happy with their decision.
Battleborn says the stock PD AGM/wet cell converter/charger and Zamp solar setup is OK to use with the drop ins.
On the other hand, other lithium knowledgeable owners say the converter and solar controllers both should be replaced with lithium capable units for best battery life. (Both PD and Zamp make lithium capable replacements)
This probably doesn't help your decision making, but I thought I'd throw it in here
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:30 PM   #22
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Are the Travato batts kept indoors or out? My Serenity has a bay on the outside of the vehicle so no amount of heating the interior will get to the battery bay.

-Randy
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:32 PM   #23
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A couple years ago I swapped out 350 ah agm for 600 ah Relion lithium. Did new big cable to carry current. Reprogrammed Xantrex inverter to recommend charging profile with no float. Charge with 220 amp alternator. Has worked perfectly.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:35 PM   #24
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I do have remote thermometer in insulted battery compartment I can monitor on my iPhone. Have been in mid twenties outside and bay is about ten degrees higher.

Just make certain to not charge if batteries are below freezing.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israndy View Post
If the built-in BMS doesn't cut them off what's going to stop the batts from charging when frozen? That's a situation that will KILL a lithium battery.



-Randy
All the so-called “drop in” lithium batteries have similar BMS’s, which cut charge when temps drop too low. Same when temps get too high. It isn’t going to damage them.

This is why Battleborn increased their warranty. The BMS keeps the battery safe from harm.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:53 PM   #26
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That’s correct. Lithium changes the experience in some very good ways. With “stuff” running I can boondocking for 3.5 days. And then they charge really fast from driving, generator or plug. I only have a bit of solar due to space limitations but with a roof full you could go a long time.
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:26 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by israndy View Post
Are the Travato batts kept indoors or out? My Serenity has a bay on the outside of the vehicle so no amount of heating the interior will get to the battery bay.

-Randy
Outside, right in front of the rear axle on trays.

If I were to do this, (drop ins) I'd do the these, or maybe just one, which is virtually the same available amperage as 2 group 31s, then change out the converter and solar controller...

https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...cycle-battery/
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Old 01-07-2019, 01:10 AM   #28
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If current setup has worked for 8 years , why switch to lithyum batteries ?
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:14 PM   #29
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Elitepowersolutions.com (is that your vendor) says 15.2 volts is the maximum for a 4 cell pack. Ours wouldn't even charge (at least very slowly) at the voltages you use.
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From all the information we have been seeing lately, lithium batteries should not be held at a fixed voltage or floated . . .
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Here is my favorite source for accurate information on LiFePO4 batteries. Read and learn: https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/
Jostalli, we agree. This guy seems to have spent years using and testing lithiums and his comments are logical and scientifically sound. We, too, recommend this article as a 'must read' for those using or contemplating lithium. On the question of charge voltages . . . we remember in an earlier 'edition' of that article in which the author said something to the effect that "if you never charge above 13.8 volts you'll be happy."

To address Booster's comment, that same author also questioned whether lithiums should be floated. But he did concede that at or below 13.4 volts, possibly they could be . . . although noting that he had seen no "white papers" analyzing low-voltage lithium floating and that he had no data on which to form an opinion.

Some people - - in fear of 'floating' their batteries - - turn-off their chargers (after charge) and power their system (even though still having shore power available) from the batteries - - turning the charger 'on' again only when the batteries have been 'used' (discharged) to some lower target level.

We look at our charger - - not as a charger, but as a power supply. When a load is dropped onto our 12v system, we see no reason to 'exercise' our lithium batteries, instead, we prefer our 'power supply' pick-up the load. In short, we have chosen not to continuously cycle our batteries when shore power is available.

Step One was to determine at what SOC charge we wanted to maintain our lithium pack? We picked something in the order of 80% SOC as a compromise between fully charging and possibly 'stressing' the pack (as cautioned by that same author) on one hand, and obtaining most of its AH capacity on the other.

Step Two was to ascertain what 'resting' terminal voltage corresponded to that SOC. The table in our earlier comments represents the resting voltages at each SOC (resting being defined as the voltage across the battery after 10 hours of resting - - meaning, after 10 hours of no charge and no discharge). 13.36 volts approximates an 80-90% SOC.

Step Three is to set our charger/power supply to that voltage. The Engineering Principle here is: If a Power Supply of exactly the same voltage is placed across a Battery, the Battery won't know the Power Supply is there. Until an external load is applied, no current will enter the battery, and none will leave.

Now some will say this is "Floating". But it is not. And if it is, since the Battery doesn't know the Power Supply is connected, this form of Floating is completely harmless.

The advantage is . . . when a load is applied, it is the Power Supply that will take-up the slack . . . pretty much like it is your alternator that supplies your headlights while you're driving down the road.

hbn7hj, yes, ours is an Elite Power Systems product, although it is sold by Starlight Solar. We're uncertain whether Starlight adds anything to the Elite product. But did you really mean 15.2 volts, or was that a typo. Starlight/Elite was clear that 14.2 volts was the max and the number that should be used for equalizing cells.

You are correct, though. At these conservative (13.4volt) charge levels, charge currents can be low, particularly as the pack nears the target SOC. For that reason we have adopted a 'split-duty' arrangement where the Magnum 2812 charger/power supply and MidNite Solar controller are both programmed to 'maintain' the 80% SOC and are set to 13.4 volts (as close to 13.36volts that these devices allow) and use our 280amp 2nd alternator to do high level, fast charging. Ordinarily the 2nd alternator is disabled, but if we have been boon-docking and need a fast charge, that alternator is programmed to 13.8 or 13.9 . . . which provides a reasonably high rate of charge without overheating the alternator.
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Old 01-08-2019, 03:18 AM   #30
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"But did you really mean 15.2 volts, or was that a typo."

4 times 3.8 is 15.2. Packs are 4 cells and maximum voltage per pack was stated as 3.8v
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