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Old 02-16-2017, 03:37 PM   #1
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Default Lithium Titanate Battery

For folks who want the current high tech battery, that will operate -22f and 20,000 cycles. request the use of these type of batteries in your pack:

Lithium Batteries
Double the price of a standard lithium cell but will last many times longer and operate in very cold conditions.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:54 PM   #2
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For folks who want the current high tech battery, that will operate -22f and 20,000 cycles. request the use of these type of batteries in your pack:

Lithium Batteries
Double the price of a standard lithium cell but will last many times longer and operate in very cold conditions.
Interesting, many of us have expected the shortcomings of the current lithium batteries to push the tech to something better, and this may be one of them. I am sure there is also more to come.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:56 PM   #3
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Hundreds of universities around the world are in this battery race.
We can expect dramatic improvements, both in performance and price, to be announced on a regular basis.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:12 PM   #4
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Lithium Titanate is actually a pretty old technology. In addition to their relative longevity, another big advantage is that they can accept very high charge currents.

However, in addition to cost, the big disadvantage is a pretty low specific energy (65Wh/kg)--much lower than LiFePO4..
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:27 PM   #5
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Hundreds of universities around the world are in this battery race.
We can expect dramatic improvements, both in performance and price, to be announced on a regular basis.
No question that this is the trajectory, but I think that there are some safety issues that will need to be concomitantly addressed. What are the black swan potential consequences of a battery in thermal runaway when it has the power density approaching a hand grenade?
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:19 PM   #6
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So much energy stored in one place.

Tesla Under Fire After Explosive Crash - NBC News
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Old 02-19-2017, 12:18 AM   #7
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Each and every one of the cells in their packs are indiviually fused.
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Old 02-19-2017, 02:13 AM   #8
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Each and every one of the cells in their packs are indiviually fused.
Did you read the link? Whatever the virtue of the fuses, they didn't much help here. The driver died from the impact of the collision itself. The passenger death was not from the collision impact. He apparently survived the initial impact but his death was the result of impact damage that made the lithium battery explode and set the vehicle afire.
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:26 PM   #9
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I'm fine with lithium since I don't plan to drink and drive into trees at high speeds. You can't really engineer safety to withstand drunk drivers.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:00 PM   #10
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I'm fine with lithium since I don't plan to drink and drive into trees at high speeds. You can't really engineer safety to withstand drunk drivers.
I'm with you in support of lithium technology but not at the expense of denying the somber flip side: the controlled release of energy from very high density power sources has its obvious advantage, but if it becomes uncontrolled, for whatever the reason, you may have your whole day ruined.

Since smelling bad has to be preferred to smelling cooked, my next set of RV lithium batteries will include the grey water sprinkler option.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:09 PM   #11
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If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:17 PM   #12
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If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
Remember when they were pushing flywheel powered buses. Huge flywheels spinning at ungodly rates with respinning drives built in at the bus stops. Can you say "grenade"?
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:03 PM   #13
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If you aspire to moving several tons of mass for several hundred miles between stops, you are going to have to live with a certain amount of risk, no matter how it is powered. I like to picture in my mind an imaginary car driven by a huge wind-up spring. Imagine how big, taut, and dangerous that spring would have to be in order to move the car 200 miles. Energy is energy.
We optimizing our odds of survival by first quantifying the ratio between risk and reward for some endeavor or practice followed by checking the "pucker" effect to determine the level of comfort or discomfort we experience contemplating that ratio.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:48 PM   #14
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We optimizing our odds of survival by first quantifying the ratio between risk and reward for some endeavor or practice followed by checking the "pucker" effect to determine the level of comfort or discomfort we experience contemplating that ratio.
Except we don't seem to be very good at the former. E.g., corporations routinely forbid senior officers from traveling in the same incredibly-safe airplanes, but are perfectly OK with them riding in the same obscenely-dangerous cars. I think there is a lot more pucker going on than quantifying.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:56 PM   #15
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My main concern with the 250lb 900 ah battery pack in my van was it smashing me in a wreck. Its in a aluminum box, bolted to the floor with other bracing. I insulated it, it has a high and low temperature alarm, high and low voltage alarm and cutout, three vent fans and a heater all temp controlled and a smoke alarm to top it off.
I'm not worried.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:35 PM   #16
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My main concern with the 250lb 900 ah battery pack in my van was it smashing me in a wreck. Its in a aluminum box, bolted to the floor with other bracing. I insulated it, it has a high and low temperature alarm, high and low voltage alarm and cutout, three vent fans and a heater all temp controlled and a smoke alarm to top it off.
I'm not worried.
No question, you've got everything accounted for....except Murphy's law.
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #17
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When you can make the occupants 100% safe from the dangers of gasoline, then get back to me about my batteries. Until then, I'm fine with them.
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:09 PM   #18
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Nova had a great show on batteries incl why lithium may be unstable and a new formulation which appears less likely to blow you up.

NOVA - Official Website | Search for the Super Battery

New Damage-Proof Battery Has Higher Energy Density, Won?t Explode ? NOVA Next | PBS


it's a work in progress, for my vehicles there is no cost advantage as yet.




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Old 03-07-2017, 01:51 AM   #19
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must we explain, once again, that the lithium batteries that have thermal runaway are the lipos? The chemistries are different and have different characteristics.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:56 PM   #20
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Could This Be the Battery That Revolutionizes Your Cars and Phones? - NBC News

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