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Old 06-03-2018, 08:02 PM   #101
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The Nations second engine alternator does NOT add a significant amount of noise to a Sprinter engine.
Without getting getting into the semantics of what "significant" is, the Nations second engine alternator does add audible noise to a Chevy engine.

Perhaps, the reason that the Nations second engine alternator does NOT add a significant amount of noise to a Sprinter engine is because compared to a gas engine, the Sprinter engine is pretty noisy to begin with.

Either way, IMO, running any engine at 1600 rpm day or night at a dedicated campsite is guaranteed to piss off your neighbors.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:52 PM   #102
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Don't forget, this is the company that gives away all its patents:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-p...no&redirect=no
Just to be clear, Tesla did not give away its patents. This is more like an offer to cross-license (I won't sue you if you don't sue me). Basically, it was a publicity stunt--and it worked well for that.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:24 PM   #103
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Just to be clear, Tesla did not give away its patents. This is more like an offer to cross-license (I won't sue you if you don't sue me). Basically, it was a publicity stunt--and it worked well for that.
Nonsense. You are making a distinction without a difference. True, they aren't literally "giving away" the patents in the sense that somebody else would come to own them instead of Tesla. That would be absurd, and not even desirable. It is also true that people were initially worried about the "good faith" proviso in Musk's statement, but that term was subsequently carefully defined. You can find it here:

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal

To summarize, they impose only three restrictions:
1) That (as you say) you can't sue them for infringing your patents;
2) You can't participate in a challenge to the validity of Tesla's patents; and
3) You can't market "knock off" products, i.e., blatant copies of Tesla products.

Within these guidelines (which seem to me to be more than reasonable), anyone can freely use Tesla's patents. This differs from a "cross license" in that it is free to anyone--no license agreement required--and Tesla has given up their right to "play favorites" for business reasons.

Hardly a "publicity stunt". You may choose to believe that anything short of putting the technology in the public domain is somehow "cheating", but that would be naive.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:50 AM   #104
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Wow. Didn't mean to make you mad. Just wanted to clear up a common misconception about what Tesla did in an area where I have expertise. FWIW, items 1 and 2 are key elements of cross-licensing, which is why I said what I did. I don't think good publicity is cheating. I think it is wise business practice. Elon is good at it.
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:12 AM   #105
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Wow. Didn't mean to make you mad. Just wanted to clear up a common misconception about what Tesla did in an area where I have expertise. FWIW, items 1 and 2 are key elements of cross-licensing, which is why I said what I did. I don't think good publicity is cheating. I think it is wise business practice. Elon is good at it.
Not mad.

But, as I see it, the misconception is that Elon didn't really give anything away (a statement that is all over the Internet). This is far from the truth. There is a huge difference between cross-licence agreements with your friends, and an open-source offer available to all comers.

If you are familiar with this area, you will understand that the GNU license is still valuable, even though there are many strings attached to it, as compared with other such licenses. (I mean this only as an analogy--this is obviously a different field with different issues).
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:47 AM   #106
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Either way, IMO, running any engine at 1600 rpm day or night at a dedicated campsite is guaranteed to piss off your neighbors.
Agreed. But I do wonder what the noise difference is. Even if boondocking, I don't think I'd like running the generator. The Travato's Onan 2800 seems super loud, inside and out, and on the 59K I looked at, it vibrated the van, more than the engine did.

I've seen some youtube videos gauging the noise of the generator, and it barely meets national park standards (60db @ 50ft) WITHOUT any load on it.

The resonator makes the sound more pleasant but doesn't reduce the decibels very much.

I'm hoping that the engine idle, even at 1600 rpm, is going to be way more pleasant sounding than the genset.

When someone gets a KL or GL and can run some noise-level tests on the Volta system charging, like FitRV did with the Onan in the video, I'll be anxious to see the results.
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Old 06-19-2018, 01:57 PM   #107
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There is no sound level acceptable in a campground in the middle of the night be it an Onan to an engine starting up.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:27 PM   #108
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There is no sound level acceptable in a campground in the middle of the night be it an Onan to an engine starting up.
Agreed. But that's not why I'm asking.

Even out in the boondocks the Onan seems like it would be too loud for me. (Based on the above video, and trying it out at the local dealer.)

Even in a campground during generator hours, it could be too loud during generator hours under load. (Since it is at maximum Natl Park sound level when not under load.)

If the engine at 1600 rpm is quieter, that would make me feel a lot better--even in the daytime.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:33 PM   #109
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Agreed. But I do wonder what the noise difference is. Even if boondocking, I don't think I'd like running the generator. The Travato's Onan 2800 seems super loud, inside and out, and on the 59K I looked at, it vibrated the van, more than the engine did.

I've seen some youtube videos gauging the noise of the generator, and it barely meets national park standards (60db @ 50ft) WITHOUT any load on it.

The resonator makes the sound more pleasant but doesn't reduce the decibels very much.

I'm hoping that the engine idle, even at 1600 rpm, is going to be way more pleasant sounding than the genset.

When someone gets a KL or GL and can run some noise-level tests on the Volta system charging, like FitRV did with the Onan in the video, I'll be anxious to see the results.
At 1600rpm, and using substantial hp to generate power, you are also going to generate a lot of heat. This means that the cooling fan(s) will be likely running full time (I think Promaster has electric fans as it is FWD). Electric fans at full speed can be anything from a roar to scream, depending on the vehicle and the fan design, do you would need to make sure the fans were full on for any noise testing. You would need to do the same for a rear drive with clutch fan, as the also get much louder when engaged.

Just starting the van and running it up to 1600 will not give you accurate sound levels.
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Old 06-19-2018, 02:43 PM   #110
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Just starting the van and running it up to 1600 will not give you accurate sound levels.
Good point. Getting sound readings while charging, and maybe running the A/C would be interesting.
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