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Old 07-25-2013, 01:42 PM   #1
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Default Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster

Anyone here think that we might start to see a lot more "B plus" (small Class C) type RV's because of the reported increased fuel efficiency of the new Transit and ProMaster chassis? It seems logical to me.
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Old 07-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

If the demand for more space inside conversion vans becomes a more commonly requested feature, and it can be achieved on a chassis/engine/transmission combo with better fuel economy, there may be more View/Navion/? sized vans built to satisfy that niche of the market. I still see a lot of that sized RV when we're out and about. Also, the BT Cruiser/Aspect/Born Free seem to be fairly common, too. I admit, since we're also "looking" for something a bit bigger, I tend to notice the B+ small C models more.
Not sure what aspect of them turns people back to a smaller, more typical class B?
Does anyone have any anecdotal info on what brings people who went to a larger B+ or small C Sprinter based RV, back to the class B fold?
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

In our small BEE Social Group we had two couples just this year, Sprinter Winnebago Via and Itasca Navion iQ owners return to Class B buying the Winnebago ERA. The biggest reason was driveability from what I heard. The width seemed to be the biggest hangup since the lengths of 25 feet was not much greater than the ERA's 24 feet. Driving on small rural roads, the narrow kind without center line markings seemed to be the biggest hangup. When you go from a true B to a C you lose a lot of driving freedom, maneuverability, parking opportunities...probably more so than you realize since you tend to rationalize and alter habits. Those two couples were at one time previous B owners so understood. The extra foot or more of height or anything greater than 10 feet is another intimidating factor. The height can keep you off places like the Needles Highway in the Black Hills and the Going to the Sun Road in Glacier NP.

I'm guessing bottom line is the Sprinter Cs don't give you a lot more to put up with them. The bathrooms are more generous and can have dry baths, but the water and waste tank capacities don't give you much more to use them fulltime or adequately unless you stay at full hookup sites. Kitchens are not much bigger now that many B converters have finally gone to 7 CF capacity refrigeratior/freezers. Beds in many Cs can actually be substandard compared to Bs, especially those 54" kind crawl in wedged in corners with the the corner nipped off. Sometimes all you get in a C of that class is a little bit more standing around breathing room which might make a difference in extended stays in one place.

Being bigger and heavier they will never have the same fuel economy as the Bs. Besides the width factor, they will never drive down the road as smoothly as the unibody vans thus touring can become a chore not a joy. At some point a C gets so big you start to feel compelled to pull a toad. At some point you start limiting where you can camp or limit your choices as we noticed camping in a state forest last week and the struggles the bigger RVs had.

It's all in style. We talked to some RVers up at Voyageurs NP last week interested in our Sprinter. After listening to them I kind of figured they might not like a B since their style was extended stays and they liked to arrange campground camping host gigs around the country. The husband seemed hot for a B Sprinter probably for many of the reasons I mentioned but the wife liked bigger. They had yo yoed from a small Scamp/Casita like trailer to a full blown 5th wheeler and back down to a 24 foot trailer in trying to find their ideal. Through all that, they still did no like backing in and parking trailers. I suspect if they did go to a Sprinter they would probably go to a Navion/View kind.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

I was guessing the width and height was probably part of it, as well as the hit and miss bed setup in most of them. The only perma-bed was the over cab cubby, and that was a pita to get to in the Navion we test drove back in Feb-March. The extra space and full dry bath area, and extra storage were nice. There was a lot more elbow room space for dining and just lazing around in it, or watching TV. We both thought the cab area was a bit Spartan in it's fit and finish and comfort. Probably would have gotten used to it after time.
The Onan 3.6 or 4.0 KW generator wasn't any quieter than my 2.8KW, so that was a trade off. I expected a propane model might be quieter. It was on the 2007 Sprinter 2500 I believe, with the 5 cylinder diesel, so I expected pretty decent fuel economy from it. It was over priced IMO, and it took 3 months before it sold. Probably pricey because it was just before "the season".
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

There is also build quality. The Sprinter Cs i've looked at have more room and a slide or two... but materials, fit, and finish are a definite tier lower than any modern "B".

I have considered a Forest River Solera, and it is a decent MH, but the width was an issue, so no being able to park near towns, or in crowded strip malls for groceries, etc.

Then, there is the service aspect. "B"s can be serviced at van places. A "C" is dicey.

Finally, there is the water damage aspect. With a "B", this is far less of a persistent worry than virtually any other class of RV out there.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news... Winnebago Trend 23L & 23B

Looks like Winnebago has the first Ram ProMaster based Class C in addition to the first Class B.

Quote:
Blaze New Trails!

Get ready for a full-featured motorhome experience at an unbelievable price. Built on the new Ram ProMaster chassis, the new Winnebago Trend™ delivers peppy, fuel-efficiency and comfortable living space for up to four people. Both 23’ floorplans offer a powered StudioLoft™ bed that lifts tight to the ceiling to conserve space during the day. Other features include energy-saving LED lighting and soft, easy-to-clean Ultraleather™ furniture. We have even added three-point seat belts to the dinette—an industry first. Start something special when you are one of the first on the road in an all-new Winnebago Trend.
Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva


Ram ProMaster Chassis 280-hp. 3.6L V6 gas engine, 6-speed automatic 62TE transmission, 220-amp. alternator

two models: the Trend 23L and Trend 23B

Here's a list of features I think are noteable:
StudioLoft™ w/electric lift
Cab seats armrests, lumbar support and multi-adjustable swivel/slide/recline (Swivel seats in a Class C )
Retractable, self-cleaning shower screen
2,800-watt Cummins Onan gas generator
Group 31 AGM battery
Optional Equipment: Heated drainage system
Automatic dual battery charge control
Auxilliary start circuit

Found a photo on Flagg RV's Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/FlaggRV
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Winnebago Trend.jpg (20.0 KB, 4350 views)
File Type: jpg Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva.jpg (47.5 KB, 4342 views)
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:03 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Nice find. I have not found a single shred of info other what you found on that "C" model anywhere, except a "Coming Soon" on Camping World's site, and an empty slot with the name on WGO's site. Definitely something up and coming though, and a definite replacement for the short C models.

I wonder if that will appeal to the 20-somethings and 30-somethings, whom normally dislike RV-ing due to fearing the cost of gas and storage. The 24' 1" of that rig is ERA-sized, and it isn't obnoxiously wide like some class Cs.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news.. Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend

I think the Itasca Viva! / Winnebago Trend was announced at the same time as the Travato.

Another photo of the Winnebago Trend, this one from Hill's RVs https://www.facebook.com/Hillsrvs



I'm trying to confirm the height to see if could fit under a 10' garage door opening like Sprinter based Class B's. One site had 10'4" as the height of the Winnebago Trend. It does not look tall in the photo.
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File Type: jpg Winnebago Trend Itasca Viva 2.jpg (52.1 KB, 4395 views)
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

What is interesting is the drop-down beds. European "semi coach-builts" often use those in floorplans so one can have an ample area for sitting/living space, then just push a switch to drop down the bed for the night. With that in mind, I would hazard a guess that one of the floorplans will have a rear kitchen or a rear bathroom. None of the pictures have shown slide-outs.

They appear fairly narrow, widening from the cab about a foot, so I wonder how possible it will be to run toad-less with one.
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:10 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news.. Itasca Viva! Winnebago Trend

and another Winnebago Trend photo, this time from Moffitt's RV https://www.facebook.com/Moffittsrv



Kerrville RV http://www.kerrvillerv.com/inv2.php?type=rv&unit_id=410 has some info on their website
Quote:
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
2014 WINNEBAGO TREND 23L RAM PROMASTER CHASSIS DODGE 280HP 3.6L V-6
VAPOR FABRIC/NTRL/MARBELLA CHERRY HEATED DRAINAGE SYSTEM CAB AREA APPLIQUE PKG
FRONT LCD FLATSCREEN TV EXTERIOR GRAPHICS PKG 2.8KW ONAN GENERATOR
LED LIGHTING STUDIO LOFT BED & REAR CORNER BED A/C WITH HEAT STRIPS
PWR AWNING 2 BENCH SEATS W/DINING TABLE 2 BURNER STOVE
MICRO/CONVECTION DBL STAINLESS SINK 2 DR FRIDGE/FREEZER
DRIVER/PASSENGER SWIVEL SEATS CLICK ON "MSRP" TAB TO VIEW MORE DETAILS NEW TO THE WINNEBAGO FAMILY!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Winnebago Trend Moffitts RV Facebook page.jpg (64.9 KB, 4549 views)
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:35 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

The Itasca Viva! / Winnebago Trend is clearly a Class C but I think it will compete more against Class B vans than larger Class C units.

We went from:
- Class B (Roadtrek) to a short 21' Class C (Trail Lite B+) because we want a full bathroom. The full kitchen was a bonus.
- 21' Class C (Trail Lite B+) to 30' Class C for a full proper queen sized bed, full bathroom & full kitchen.
- 30' Class C to 20' 17MPG Custom Class B because of the 8 MPG the 30' C was getting and the inability to use it as a second vehicle for errands.

We'd like something a bit bigger but........ it must fit in my garage
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

The "C" is tempting, especially with the drop-down bed, but I also need it to fit in a driveway, so a "B" it will be.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

If there is an air conditioner on top it is going to be higher than 10 feet easily. Also, don't kid yourself on the width. The box will be a full 8 foot wide minimum.

The competition would be something like the Pleasure-way Pursuit 8'-5" wide with an awning on the side of the box or the Leisure Travel Vans Serenity and Unity models. They are all in that range and less C boxy molded look. All over 10 feet tall.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:12 AM   #14
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Maybe 7'6" wide like the Itasca IQ and Winnebago View Profile.

The 21' Trail Lite I had was a few inches over 8' wide - it could fill a lane. DW said that RV always felt "tippy".
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

If I get something bigger, it will be sitting in our driveway, so height isn't an issue for us. Width somewhat more, as it's a 2 car width, and it would have to be close to the neighbor's fence on one side, but that's not a show stopper.
My main concern with something as large (and presumably as heavy) as it appears to be, is the drive train. I'm thinking a 280 HP gasoline V6, with a comparable amount of torque, in a FWD vehicle that might weigh 4+ tons, may be underpowered. The 6 speed auto-transmission may be able to mitigate it somewhat, but I'd have to drive one in the mountains first, as it's what we do.
Another concern is the side view (artist's conception?) picture also makes the tail behind the rear axle look pretty long, and there may be parking lots and other grades that might drag it on the ground, and that wouldn't be a good thing either. For now, I'll assume the side view pic isn't to scale, so that point may be moot.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Re: long overhangs and dragging

The 30' Bigfoot Class C I owned had a maybe 2' wide 6" diameter steel drum underneath at the rear of the motorhome to protect it. I never actually scraped the bottom of that unit though.
The 21' Trail Lite had a really long overhang in comparison I did scrape the bottom exiting a gas station. I did add two aftermarket steel wheels bought at Camping World at the end of the two frame rails in the very rear of the RV.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

My eye says 8 feet wide considering the Promaster is wider than the Sprinter and the box flair out appears more than the View. Then since it is a box the awning option will had another 5" as I doubt it will sit on top of the roof tucked back like the Sprinter Bs.

Here is why a C is harrowing compared to a B. This is the Daniel Boone National Forest drive in Kentucky approaching a tunnel. I measured this road at one stop and it was less than 16 feet wide.



Here is the tunnel. I did not see any other RVs over the 15 miles or so road and I was glad so because there were no shoulders on much of the drive.

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Old 07-26-2013, 04:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

winnebego website gives some trend info but hard to get at.

http://mdev.gowinnebago.com/products/20 ... /features/


i also found studioloft on a via. not what i thoght

http://media.gowinnebago.com/models/glo ... ochure.pdf


page 3 of brochure
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Re: long overhangs and dragging

The 30' Bigfoot Class C I owned had a maybe 2' wide 6" diameter steel drum underneath at the rear of the motorhome to protect it. I never actually scraped the bottom of that unit though.
The 21' Trail Lite had a really long overhang in comparison I did scrape the bottom exiting a gas station. I did add two aftermarket steel wheels bought at Camping World at the end of the two frame rails in the very rear of the RV.
Yeah, I was thinking you might have to add a skid plate or wheels to keep it off the roadway when entering or exiting some places. The drops are just too steep over too short a distance. Gas stations are a good example.
As far as width goes, some Sprinter based B vans and those with fiberglass bodies on van chassis may have the same problem as a small C or B+ depending on the roadway, or tunnel, or bridge, etc.. Davydd's example looks too narrow for more than one vehicle at a time no matter what you're driving, but it's hard to tell from a picture. Sometimes the drivers make the difference in what will and won't fit. Someone's going to have to wait to enter and pass through some narrow passages, or do some stunt driving backing up.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ducato/ProMaster news...

The tunnel is the extreme exclamation point to the 15 mile Red River Gorge Trail in the Daniel Boone National Forest, but with a roadway less than 16 feet wide two Class Cs with 8 ft. boxes, mirrors and awnings sticking out are not going to get by each other on a shoulderless dropoff roadway. Last year alone I drove four public roadway places where Cs of this type being discussed would dare not go. That's not counting the numerous small strip shopping center parking lots I've pulled into for a Starbucks coffee those C's could not park in.
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