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Old 06-06-2016, 11:47 PM   #31
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Here is one of the threads.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...tion-3248.html

Using the Google advanced search for the forum will give a big list of others also.

There are quotes of MB and other manuals and such, and I know some of the threads had other MB documents, although as I said they weren't completely consistent between them.

How big a problem is it? I have no idea, but the manufacturers are covering their butts pretty thoroughly with warnings, so it is at least possible. Most of the "tourers" in the class Bs drive enough it would likely never be an issue. Those of us that like to sit for a week or to, with minimal, if any driving, would be more likely to have an issue.

I have been asking OTR truckers what they think, whenever I get a chance, and they say for normal use, they don't have an issue because their trucks work hard whenever they are moving, but most of them with the new trucks use an auxiliary power generator, or batteries, instead of idling overnight like they used to do.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:59 PM   #32
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My two cents: I tend to keep vehicles until they can't be driven anymore. Long idling your diesel, gas or rubber band engine, like otherwise running your engine, causes wear and tear. I'd rather wear out a replaceable generator, than add wear to an engine on a high-end vehicle.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:02 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
Here is one of the threads.

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...tion-3248.html

Using the Google advanced search for the forum will give a big list of others also.
I know that thread very well, having paid close attention to it. I quickly reviewed it now (as well as some but not all of the referenced threads). Plenty of talk about DPF issues plus more hearsay, but if there are any actual citations of published MB documents concerning idling, I can't find them. There is one (repeated) reference to the advice about "short distance driving" that does indeed appear in the manual. It says that one should drive at highs speed for "20 minutes every 300 miles" of such driving. So, how much idling translates to 300 miles? I do not know. But, if time is the issue (which it probably is), 300 miles at 30 miles/hour would translate to 20 minutes of high-speed driving per 10 hours of idling, which sounds reasonable. Are there other documents that I am missing?

I want to emphasize again that I am no fan of long idling, and I rarely do it myself. But I would like to know the facts, and I so far cannot substantiate the widely-held claim that MB prohibits or even warns against long idling.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:06 AM   #34
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My two cents: I tend to keep vehicles until they can't be driven anymore. Long idling your diesel, gas or rubber band engine, like otherwise running your engine, causes wear and tear. I'd rather wear out a replaceable generator, than add wear to an engine on a high-end vehicle.
Carrying around an extra 125 lbs every mile you drive is a different kind of wear and tear. Which is worse? I have no idea.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:47 AM   #35
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This link: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post23685

had references to "stationary for long periods" from actual MB docs.I interpreted that in context to mean idling not simply parked.

I do have an email from Sprinter Engineering Support that I have previously posted.

Quote:
Per your request, with the SCR technology of our engines, we do not recommend idling a Sprinter for longer periods than 2.5 - 3 hours.

Even with the high idle engaged, you should not exceed the aforementioned times to avoid clogging the DPF or damages to the EGR valve.

Fyi, the fuel consumption is .4 - . 5gal. per hour of idling.

Thanks

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Sprinter Engineering Support
That's the extent of my knowledge of the issue!
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:54 AM   #36
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Carrying around an extra 125 lbs every mile you drive is a different kind of wear and tear. Which is worse? I have no idea.
If 125lbs made a difference, my fat ass would wreck my Promaster in a week.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:02 AM   #37
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Let's take one step back and look at the larger picture...


1. Long idle is anything longer than 2.5~3 hrs continuous (according to MB)

2. how often are your Volt-start going to kick in? Once a day? 5 times a day? everyday?

3. I accept that these engines are not designed for L-O-N-G idles. But are we doing long idles here? If Volt-Start kicked in twice in one night for 35 min each, should we really be that concerned?

4. I love the fuel consumption is only .4 - . 5gal. per hour of idling
(I assume that is the 3L engine?)



ps. not trying to persuade anyone here. This is one of those endless debates. Have fun.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:21 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
Let's take one step back and look at the larger picture...


1. Long idle is anything longer than 2.5~3 hrs continuous (according to MB)

2. how often are your Volt-start going to kick in? Once a day? 5 times a day? everyday?

3. I accept that these engines are not designed for L-O-N-G idles. But are we doing long idles here? If Volt-Start kicked in twice in one night for 35 min each, should we really be that concerned?

4. I love the fuel consumption is only .4 - . 5gal. per hour of idling
(I assume that is the 3L engine?)



ps. not trying to persuade anyone here. This is one of those endless debates. Have fun.
From the information we have seen on the Yahoo board for a Zion SRT, if the AC is running fairly hard, the Voltstart will need to start the engine so it runs about 1/2 the time. I think they run about 20 minutes or so, and can do 5 cycles, so after 3-4 hours you would have to restart the cycle. Bigger battery units will run less cycles, but longer ones. The 50% engine on is probably reasonable for many of the engine generator setups when running AC, but I haven't run the numbers. All this is based on the AC taking about 100 amps and the generator being capable of about 200 amps, so 50% run time.

IF some to the idling rules are correct (2-3 hours from MB or 10 hours from Advanced before a 20-40 minute highway drive to regen the DPF, you would get there pretty quickly if running the AC. The questions is if it they are correct. The current Sprinter manual state 300 miles of slow driving needs to be regenned, and "stationary" use counts towards that, but they don't say how much time. Very non committal from MB. I haven't seen anything about gassers having problems with long idling since the everything went EFI and that eliminated the catalytic overheating issues that carbs caused. Police idle gassers for hours at time and most still go well over 100K miles.

As more of these systems get out and older, I am sure we will find out if there are any issues, as the repairs wouldn't be cheap. But as I said earlier, almost all B users drive so often it probably won't be an issue.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:32 AM   #39
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something to consider

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Old 06-07-2016, 03:34 AM   #40
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I interpret the idling rule from MB as 2-3 hours continuous, not cumulative.

If the Volt-Start kicks in for 35 min, off for 30 mins, and kicks in again. That should be ok.


My interpretation could be wrong. YMMV.
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