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Old 06-07-2016, 03:43 AM   #41
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I interpret the idling rule from MB as 2-3 hours continuous, not cumulative.

If the Volt-Start kicks in for 35 min, off for 30 mins, and kicks in again. That should be ok.


My interpretation could be wrong. YMMV.
The understanding, as I have heard it, is that it is cumulative between highway drive regenerations.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:31 AM   #42
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Great video. Thank you for posting. It explained it very simply.

How would periodic idling be different than short trips? Is there an assumption idling at low revs creates less soot and there less of an issue than the short trips at higher revs? IMO it does seem riskier to do the idling but I have no experience with this... However getting a straight answer would be difficult.
Have there been warranty claims denied due to perceived extended idling? I really like the idea of using a second alternator vs a generator.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:40 AM   #43
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The root of the problem is not idling or length of trips,
but the operation of the engine in such a way that
the DPF temperature could not rise high enough to burn off the particulates.

If the 2nd alternator is putting enough load on the engine,
the engine speed will rise above idle,
then there will not be a problem to the DPF.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:44 AM   #44
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Bear in mind the Europeans have been using diesel engines for many year; these are new, but not untried technologies.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:49 AM   #45
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This is all quite interesting, and I'm actually learning a lot.

Here's my take on the whole thing;

When laying over with no hook-ups, I'll fire up the generator a few times a day for the Microwave, Coffee Pot, Toaster, etc. Coach Battery gets charged while running. If it gets hot at night, the generator will run the AC. (Furnace is 12v Propane, so no issues)

But anyway, it all gets done, and I don't worry about the engine. It's isolated from the coach. I know it will start in the morning, and no issues. Just seems to me like a lot less trouble & worry's.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:53 AM   #46
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The root of the problem is not idling or length of trips,
but the operation of the engine in such a way that
the DPF temperature could not rise high enough to burn off the particulates.

If the 2nd alternator is putting enough load on the engine,
the engine speed will rise above idle,
then there will not be a problem to the DPF.

I think that's the question. Does the engine generator create enough heat to burn off the soot? I was assuming that if short trips cannot generate enough heat than most likely a second alternator at high idle couldn't. I have been hearing you should run the engine 30-45 mins at highway speeds to clear the soot after the idle period.
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Old 06-07-2016, 06:11 AM   #47
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Have there been warranty claims denied due to perceived extended idling?
That is a good question. I don't see how there possibly could be, given that long idling is not mentioned in the warranty text, as far as I have been able to see. If they don't clearly proscribe some action, they can't very well use that action to deny a claim. For that matter, how could they even prove long idling? Plus, don't forget that they sell options that are explicitly designed for long-idle applications, such as ambulances and take-off devices.
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:23 PM   #48
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For that matter, how could they even prove long idling?
Computers tell all these days, and keep records for "warranty purposes".
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:13 PM   #49
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Computers tell all these days, and keep records for "warranty purposes".
Some of the stuff I have seen showed logs that appeared to have come from the computer, and included times between regens, DPF temps and pressures, etc. I would guess that would be typical.

A guy I worked with was a VW fan and when he got his last one a couple of years ago, he went to gas. He said that the VW forums were full of folks complaining about VW not honoring the DPF and EGR warranty claims based on maintenance and conditions. Again, second or third hand information, but interesting.

The Ford literature is full of disclaimers on the warranty for their diesels, and do include a lot of "unless equipped with ambulance package", or other special use package. They likely do have something different in them, as Avanti has mentioned. It may be something like the extra fuel nozzle setups we have heard about, that can generate the extra heat for the regen on demand.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:46 PM   #50
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That is a good question. I don't see how there possibly could be, given that long idling is not mentioned in the warranty text, as far as I have been able to see. If they don't clearly proscribe some action, they can't very well use that action to deny a claim. For that matter, how could they even prove long idling? Plus, don't forget that they sell options that are explicitly designed for long-idle applications, such as ambulances and take-off devices.
As mentioned they could prove idle times possibly with the onboard diagnostic data. However, as you mention:
- Not in the manual as a warning or guidance to not idle
- They sell high idle and second alternator bracket for exactly the purpose of charging items or running tools.

If we haven't heard issues of not honoring DEF filter replacements under warranty then it seems like its OK to idle. It would be interesting to search/access the service notifications they send to MB service centers. However, only time will tell... they could change the documentation and approach at any time. Regardless of what they say thought... it does seem that practically the idling would not create enough heat to clear the soot so it would be an issue at some point regardless of who pays for the fix. How much does a DEF filter replacement cost?
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