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Old 06-02-2017, 08:33 PM   #121
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Davydd says his ARV uses 100ah per day with no camping use, and upwards of 300ah per day when camping with essentially no AC use. If idling with only 100ah per hour (davydd's new Delco alternator does better), you could need upwards of 3 hours a day. Run the AC, and you will be running the engine well over 50%, if it will even keep up idling.
For the record, If I stop about 4 PM and get underway at 8 AM that is 16 hours parked. Running our 12V compressor refrigerator all the time is a variable because of ambient temperature but is rated about 5.2 amp draw but is own about an estimated 75% of the time so there is an average of about 4ah. I leave my inverter always on for convenience and that is about a 3ah draw leaving it on. The there are draws from the always on items like my Wifi Ranger, cell booster, Trik-L-Start, idiot lights, alarms, and the 5" Silverleaf screen. I estimate that at about 2-3ah. So that is about a 10ah average draw or in an overnight stay 160ah. I could reduce if I turned my inverter off but I have the articulating beds running a 120vac and I am alway manipulating them when parked. Also, we have a Keurig and microwave which really don't use much since they are on a very little time. But we do brew about 4 cups per stop. I leave the inverter on for the convenience of not setting the blinking microwave clock every time and of course my articulating beds and use of every 120vac outlet. Our other use is an induction cooktop, charging cell phones and iPads, Computer use, TV watching, and lights of course. With all LEDs the lighting is insignificant compared to our past RVs. Bottom line is a base of 160ah and up to 200ah intensive use. With an 800ah battery bank that shuts off at 20% I have a usable 640ah. So an all day stay could be up to 300ah but still get me two comfortable days. Maybe three.

Solar is insignificant on a 4 PM to 6 PM stay. Solar is insignificant unless staying multiple days because because our Delco Remy 320 second alternator charges at the rate of 220 amps at idle and 280 amps consistently and there is no heat drop off as with the Nations alternator. Even if I am staying put in a campground I still sight see, run to trail heads, run to the store or restaurant. Rarely do I sit. Running the engine for those tasks charges the batteries back up in well under an hour's driving time.

I know this because I can monitor my usage down to the percentage of charge and down to the amp hour with the Silverleaf monitor. There is no guessing. I treat my B electrically whether on shore power or not identically for convenience and have yet to run out of power, even conserve, and though I have Autogen (Voltstart with Roadtrek) but I never use it. I have no LPG on board and of course no Onan generator. Heating and hot water (instant) is via diesel-fired heat exchanger.

Hey, but if you want a Warp Core Roadtrek, Advanced RV has one for sale. They took it as a trade in for a customer.
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:23 PM   #122
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Same frig we have but without the controller. Do you also have the cold plate with it?
No, ASU cold plate on my fridge. Would be nice to know the difference in efficiencies between 30 years old ASU and modern Smart Controller.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:20 PM   #123
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No, ASU cold plate on my fridge. Would be nice to know the difference in efficiencies between 30 years old ASU and modern Smart Controller.
From the description of the new controller, it sounds a lot like an ASU without the coldplate. Run up to full speed on the compressor and get the frig colder when on charge voltage, run the compressor on lowest speed when on batteries as it is most efficient, and raise the temp.

When I put our frig in, I built my own speed control for the compressor with a rotary switch and some resistors. It works fine, but we have found that we have never had to turn up the compressor speed to stay at 37* in the frig, and that is up to 100* with the frig side in the sun. I have considered putting in the new digital electronic thermostat, though, as we have had a couple of the regular ones go bad on us. They also tend to lose accuracy once you get about 3 weeks frost in the frig, as the sensor is on the freezer box. Isotherm likes 41* in the frig, which is what the ASU ran at, but would go down to nearly freezing when on charge voltage. The temps weren't adjustable.
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Old 06-03-2017, 12:49 AM   #124
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... our Delco Remy 320 second alternator charges at the rate of 220 amps at idle and 280 amps consistently and there is no heat drop off as with the Nations alternator.
How does an alternator delivering >280 amps not experience some level of heat derating? What regulator does ARV provide for the Delco?
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Old 06-03-2017, 12:58 AM   #125
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How does an alternator delivering >280 amps not experience some level of heat derating? What regulator does ARV provide for the Delco?
It appears it does a little, as davydd suggests 280 amps continuous, but that is very good in any world, IMO. The DC Power ones will drop to in the range of 65% when hot, net, by the time the Balmar cycles them down to 50% at about 220* on the case. The Delco davydd is a marine/ambulance style that is 100% duty rated, so theoretically would do the full output all the time without reduction.

If they are not on a Balmar, the DC Power units will do more output, it appears, as the internal temp output reduction (3 stages) looks like it kicks in at a higher temperature. They claim they will give good output at 270*, but they also say not to use them for charging batteries, so the obviously don't want you to get that hot for long periods or very often.
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Old 06-03-2017, 01:46 AM   #126
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For the record, If I stop about 4 PM and get underway at 8 AM that is 16 hours parked. Running our 12V compressor refrigerator all the time is a variable because of ambient temperature but is rated about 5.2 amp draw but is own about an estimated 75% of the time so there is an average of about 4ah. I leave my inverter always on for convenience and that is about a 3ah draw leaving it on. The there are draws from the always on items like my Wifi Ranger, cell booster, Trik-L-Start, idiot lights, alarms, and the 5" Silverleaf screen. I estimate that at about 2-3ah. So that is about a 10ah average draw or in an overnight stay 160ah. I could reduce if I turned my inverter off but I have the articulating beds running a 120vac and I am alway manipulating them when parked. Also, we have a Keurig and microwave which really don't use much since they are on a very little time. But we do brew about 4 cups per stop. I leave the inverter on for the convenience of not setting the blinking microwave clock every time and of course my articulating beds and use of every 120vac outlet. Our other use is an induction cooktop, charging cell phones and iPads, Computer use, TV watching, and lights of course. With all LEDs the lighting is insignificant compared to our past RVs. Bottom line is a base of 160ah and up to 200ah intensive use. With an 800ah battery bank that shuts off at 20% I have a usable 640ah. So an all day stay could be up to 300ah but still get me two comfortable days. Maybe three.

Solar is insignificant on a 4 PM to 6 PM stay. Solar is insignificant unless staying multiple days because because our Delco Remy 320 second alternator charges at the rate of 220 amps at idle and 280 amps consistently and there is no heat drop off as with the Nations alternator. Even if I am staying put in a campground I still sight see, run to trail heads, run to the store or restaurant. Rarely do I sit. Running the engine for those tasks charges the batteries back up in well under an hour's driving time.

I know this because I can monitor my usage down to the percentage of charge and down to the amp hour with the Silverleaf monitor. There is no guessing. I treat my B electrically whether on shore power or not identically for convenience and have yet to run out of power, even conserve, and though I have Autogen (Voltstart with Roadtrek) but I never use it. I have no LPG on board and of course no Onan generator. Heating and hot water (instant) is via diesel-fired heat exchanger.

Hey, but if you want a Warp Core Roadtrek, Advanced RV has one for sale. They took it as a trade in for a customer.
Happy recovery Dave, based on the post you are back to yourself, congratulation.

How many days you can camp without charging, no engine, no driving, no solar?

Cheers,
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:01 AM   #127
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How does an alternator delivering >280 amps not experience some level of heat derating? What regulator does ARV provide for the Delco?
ARV provides a Balmar regulator. With the Nations (I've had both so I know) the drop off in output was severe in short time despite having forced air directly on the alternator which Roadtrek doesn't do. The severity was such that with air conditioning load and the other anticipated use I've already outlined that the Nations would end up in the death spiral in not keeping up. The forced air that was installed for the Nations was yanked out when I upgraded to the Delco as it was not needed, The Delco 320 is rated higher than Nations 270. It charges so fast that despite deliberately running the battery down I was able to test for one hour before it fully charged the battery. I chose the Natchez Trace which is a constant 50 mph with no stops. The Delco as I said quickly dropped to 280 amps and held steady for the full hour until fully charged and that ended the test. I imagine that Interstate speeds of 70 may boost output. I have tested Autogen with high idle (again Roadtrek doesn't offer that option) and it settles in above 220 amps and holds it for the duration.

Advanced RV's Autogen is limited to 5 starts same as Roadtrek before you have to put a key start in the sequence but unlike Roadtrek's 35 minute duration, Advanced RV can program the running time for each start up to 2 hours but that is overkill because the batteries will fully charge in under 2 hours so I've never exceeded that in testing.

My ARV batteries are Elite Power Solutions GBH lithium ion with 16 3.4 volt 200ah cells arranged in series 4 cells for a nominal 12V 200ah battery combined with three others in parallel as one bank of 800ah batteries in a sealed insulated box approximately where an Onan generator is typically installed. There is no switching off individual banks like Roadtrek. There is no perceptible phantom loss of amp hours. The Silverleaf monitor readout has each of the 16 cells monitored for voltage and temperature. There is automatic balancing if needed but I have observed that only once in 2.5 years. There is a hard shutdown at 20% SOC. There is a programmable SOC limit for Autogen to start from 20% to about 90% or maybe higher. I set it once in testing at 90% just to see if it would start. The batteries accept alternator charging, solar charging and even shore power charging simultaneously. Once 100% SOC is received the batteries float back down to 90% SOC before charging begins again. That is to reduce the cycles and life I assume. I think there is a lot of sophistication in what ARV does.
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:01 AM   #128
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From the description of the new controller, it sounds a lot like an ASU without the coldplate. Run up to full speed on the compressor and get the frig colder when on charge voltage, run the compressor on lowest speed when on batteries as it is most efficient, and raise the temp.
When I put our frig in, I built my own speed control for the compressor with a rotary switch and some resistors. It works fine, but we have found that we have never had to turn up the compressor speed to stay at 37* in the frig, and that is up to 100* with the frig side in the sun. I have considered putting in the new digital electronic thermostat, though, as we have had a couple of the regular ones go bad on us. They also tend to lose accuracy once you get about 3 weeks frost in the frig, as the sensor is on the freezer box. Isotherm likes 41* in the frig, which is what the ASU ran at, but would go down to nearly freezing when on charge voltage. The temps weren't adjustable.
One difference is the location of the temperature sensor; in the ASU fridge, the temperature sensor is located on the cold plate/evaporator in the Smart Controller it is as far away from the evaporator as possible but still 5 cm above the floor. The Smart Controller could be deploying proportional or even a PID control based on the temperature delta. Besides the efficiency another major difference is silence, no more clicking noise and compressor is practically not audible. I also change the fan to the super quiet one. It is a different fridge since the change.
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:18 AM   #129
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One difference is the location of the temperature sensor; in the ASU fridge, the temperature sensor is located on the cold plate/evaporator in the Smart Controller it is as far away from the evaporator as possible but still 5 cm above the floor. The Smart Controller could be deploying proportional or even a PID control based on the temperature delta. Beside s the efficiency another major difference is silence, no more clicking noise and compressor is practically not audible. I also change the fan to the super quiet one. It is a different fridge since the change.
I think they are learning not to put the sensor on the freezer, as I am sure most everyone has the issues we have had with frost buildup. I have had it away from the freezer and it worked better, but the mechanical version has too much hysteresis to be really good. That is why I am thinking about the electronic one without speed control, as I already have that. It is made by Frigoboat, I think, and they say to mount it away from the freezer coils.

Is the quieter fan from Isotherm? Same power, airflow, etc? We don't have noise issues, as ours vent outside which pretty much muffles it to nearly inaudible, but any improvement in performance is worth looking at. We currently use about 17 to 35ah per day when in 60* to 100* temps and sun, and frig temp of 37/38*. Barely runs at all when it is getting near 40* out as it is half outside. I don't think we would like the temp swings with newer style thermostat, as we always seem to have stuff that doesn't like to be too cold.
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Old 06-03-2017, 03:28 AM   #130
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I think they are learning not to put the sensor on the freezer, as I am sure most everyone has the issues we have had with frost buildup. I have had it away from the freezer and it worked better, but the mechanical version has too much hysteresis to be really good. That is why I am thinking about the electronic one without speed control, as I already have that. It is made by Frigoboat, I think, and they say to mount it away from the freezer coils.

Is the quieter fan from Isotherm? Same power, airflow, etc? We don't have noise issues, as ours vent outside which pretty much muffles it to nearly inaudible, but any improvement in performance is worth looking at. We currently use about 17 to 35ah per day when in 60* to 100* temps and sun, and frig temp of 37/38*. Barely runs at all when it is getting near 40* out as it is half outside. I don't think we would like the temp swings with newer style thermostat, as we always seem to have stuff that doesn't like to be too cold.
This is the summary of my installation. I think, to see the pictures signing up is necessary. Our fridge is cooled internally so original fan was audible, not too loud but the new fan is really quiet.
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...&postcount=771
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...&postcount=772
This is the fan, I tried my best to match the specs with the one from Isothemp.
https://www.amazon.com/120x120x25mm-...ilpage_o06_s00
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