Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-31-2017, 06:34 PM   #341
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Some lessons from our ongoing dealer experience trying to buy this CS Adventurous for those who might be interested. I should have studied a bit more before I bought the airline ticket but I'm grateful the dealer let me test out the unit extensively before hand. Hoping it gets fixed so we can purchase it soon.

https://convotrek.blogspot.com/2017/...-bad-ugly.html
__________________

WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 06:41 PM   #342
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
Thanks! That red LCD display would be hard to miss when it's working properly. Looks pretty bright.
I just talked with Balmar and got some clarification on the MC-614. BTW, these people are top notch. You call, and right away you are talking to a competent technical support person that gives you the straight dope.

This PDF has a pictorial of how the regulator is supposed to be connected to the alternator.

http://www.balmar.net/wp-content/upl...For-Review.pdf

BTW, I stand corrected regarding a previous post of mine. I thought that the 10 amp fuse was protection for a field winding short. This is not the case. That fuse protects the power input for the regulator on Pin 2. If it's blown (which in your case, it isn't) there would be no display. Also, if there is no power on Pin 3 on ignition, there would be no display.

With respect to the display, here's the bottom line: if Pin 1 shows ground, Pin 2 shows battery voltage and Pin 3 shows battery voltage, the display is maintained even if the battery voltage sense fuse at Pin 9 is blown. There is one exception: the regulator has an internal breaker that opens power in the event of unacceptably high module temperature, but unless it is defective, the breaker automatically resets when temp drops down.

I don't know why they removed the regulator for trouble shooting since the Balmar manual has a testing procedure while it's in place.

The Balmar tech is interested in what you determine to be the problem.
__________________

cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 06:46 PM   #343
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388 View Post
I just talked with Balmar and got some clarification on the MC-614. BTW, these people are top notch. You call, and right away you are talking to a competent technical support person that gives you the straight dope.

This PDF has a pictorial of how the regulator is supposed to be connected to the alternator.

http://www.balmar.net/wp-content/upl...For-Review.pdf

BTW, I stand corrected regarding a previous post of mine. I thought that the 10 amp fuse was protection for a field winding short. This is not the case. That fuse protects the power input for the regulator on Pin 2. If it's blown (which in your case, it isn't) there would be no display. Also, if there is no power on Pin 3 on ignition, there would be no display.

With respect to the display, here's the bottom line: if Pin 1 shows ground, Pin 2 shows battery voltage and Pin 3 shows battery voltage, the display is maintained even if the battery voltage sense fuse at Pin 9 is blown. There is one exception: the regulator has an internal breaker that opens power in the event of unacceptably high module temperature, but unless it is defective, the breaker automatically resets when temp drops down.

I don't know why they removed the regulator for trouble shooting since the Balmar manual has a testing procedure while it's in place.

The Balmar tech is interested in what you determine to be the problem.
Awesome, thanks! I'll pass that info on and maybe the dealer here will contact them.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 06:55 PM   #344
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

.

You should ask the web admin to split this thread from the first post on your acceptance testing.

The new thread will become the reference thread for all future acceptances.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:01 PM   #345
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

.

What was wrong with the fridge?
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:02 PM   #346
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

You should ask the web admin to split this thread from the first post on your acceptance testing.

The new thread will become the reference thread for all future acceptances.
I defer to you smarter guys on that one. If others learn from my mistakes, well buckle up and get ready to learn a lot
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:04 PM   #347
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

What was wrong with the fridge?
Not sure. Other than it was not refrigerating or freezing, despite the lights being powered on. If I had to guess I would think it was lacking freon or something but I don't even know if it uses that.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:08 PM   #348
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

.

RT had paid for hotel and car rental during some warranty work.
It does not hurt to ask for reimbursement.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:10 PM   #349
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
Not sure. Other than it was not refrigerating or freezing, despite the lights being powered on. If I had to guess I would think it was lacking freon or something but I don't even know if it uses that.
It uses ammonia. It is a closed circuit; there is no chance of leaking.


It has happened to some RVs (not just RT) that the fridge was not plugged in from the factory. You would think the QC should have noticed that.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:16 PM   #350
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

You should ask the web admin to split this thread from the first post on your acceptance testing.

The new thread will become the reference thread for all future acceptances.
Even though it is fairly long and covers the prepurchase stuff and some sidelines, IMO, leaving it as is would be my first choice.

It shows the entire process we all go through in deciding on this kind of stuff, including all the opinions of others with their very large range.

In looking back, I don't know how it could have gone better for the pre-delivery inspection unless you did hire someone who is very Roadtrek knowledgeable to do it before you went to get the unit. Once there you have tough decisions about whether to stay or go home for a while.

It does point out the advantage that folks have that manage to work with a local dealer, although that isn't always possible.

It is a shame that the excitement of a new (and expensive) RV can be knocked back by unnecessary problems like this, which just shouldn't happen.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:31 PM   #351
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
It uses ammonia. It is a closed circuit; there is no chance of leaking.


It has happened to some RVs (not just RT) that the fridge was not plugged in from the factory. You would think the QC should have noticed that.
The lights were working though, so I *think* it was powered. Not sure what the issue was but I'll ask the tech when I see him next and post it.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:39 PM   #352
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

.

I am glad you are standing firm on the acceptance.
Judging by the web posts around the internet, and there are many on various forums, RT has been getting away with murder for too long. One woman who bought a top-of-the-line loaded Sprinter similar to yours. She had so much problem with it, she sold it at a loss after 6 months, because she could not handle the runarounds and excuses.

I hope you have a better outcome.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:40 PM   #353
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
The lights were working though, so I *think* it was powered. Not sure what the issue was but I'll ask the tech when I see him next and post it.
I expect your fridge is a compressor fridge with no ammonia in it. It should be able to run on either 12v or 120v power and many simply flip the 120 volt breaker and run it on 12v all the time which is more efficient than 120 volt operation.
gregmchugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:42 PM   #354
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,240
Default

If you do Facebook, consider joining the Roadtrek & Hymer Owners Group. Lots of owners there willing to share technical info. Open technical discussion allowed so different than the Roadtreking group.
gregmchugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:44 PM   #355
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
For those who want an emergency regulator in case the Balmar fails, they actually make one that many of the boaters carry. Cheap and small, fixed voltage, but it will let you charge again to get where you need for the complete repair. Carrying a big replacement multistage is expensive and takes more space.

We carry one with use, although we are more critical as our smart regulator runs both alternators and we lose all charging if it fails.

I think the spare is a plug in for a Balmar regulator, but we had to due our own splice in plugs for our Ample power regulator, so we can run either of the alternators depending on if only one is working.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/balm...-regulator-ers
No question, a bailout single stage regulator would get you back to an upright condition, but considering that the cost of his coach is in the neighborhood of 150k, I don't think the economy of a bandage regulator should be a significant factor. The MC-614 with the entire harness costs around $350 and installing it is a plug and play process that requires little mechanical skill and no electrical knowledge. Particularly for a warp core equipped coach, since the shore side battery charger is so anemic, alternator charging is essential.

We've just got 800ah but we're still planning to carry a properly programmed MC-614 spare from Nations and we're even thinking about carrying a replacement inverter. None of this is inexpensive but considering the initial purchase cost of the RV, IMO it's an acceptable insurance premium.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:51 PM   #356
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388 View Post
No question, a bailout single stage regulator would get you back to an upright condition, but considering that the cost of his coach is in the neighborhood of 150k, I don't think the economy of a bandage regulator should be a significant factor. The MC-614 with the entire harness costs around $350 and installing it is a plug and play process that requires little mechanical skill and no electrical knowledge. Particularly for a warp core equipped coach, since the shore side battery charger is so anemic, alternator charging is essential.

We've just got 800ah but we're still planning to carry a properly programmed MC-614 spare from Nations and we're even thinking about carrying a replacement inverter. None of this is inexpensive but considering the initial purchase cost of the RV, IMO it's an acceptable insurance premium.
I guess we have different definitions of "significant" cost. At $35 and the size of matchbox, while also being a plug in, I wouldn't see a reason to carry the expensive one which you can get in a couple of days if you need it after the emergency repair. There is, of course, the case where the regulator failure was caused by something else in the system. In this case a would rather fry a $35 regulator than one that cost 10X that.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 07:52 PM   #357
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmchugh View Post
I expect your fridge is a compressor fridge with no ammonia in it. It should be able to run on either 12v or 120v power and many simply flip the 120 volt breaker and run it on 12v all the time which is more efficient than 120 volt operation.
The first generation of RT compressor fridges were set up to run on 12V or 120V but I believe the current generation is 12 volt only.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 08:14 PM   #358
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmchugh View Post
Yes, all chargers are connected on the battery side of the disconnect relay...
It's not easy to verify this empirically because the battery disconnect shuts off the voltmeter. If the meter was connected to the battery side of the disconnect switch, it would be easier to demonstrate.

There is something that; puzzles me about this arrangement. When unconnected to shore power, if the main battery switch is in disconnect, the inverter is inoperative. It needs a basttery output to function. I get that. Now, if you hook up shore power, even with the main battery switch off, you can still light off the inverter. What is the source?

Another question: you describe all the charging sources to be in parallel at the lithium charging port. If these charging sources are in a constant current (bulk) mode, with respect to the load, they apparently act in concert with one another. But if these sources are in a constant voltage mode, the load becomes selective with respect to which source is recognized and only recognizes the highest of competing voltages at the input. How is this phenomena dealt with in a condition where the alternator and solar panels are simultaneously attempting to charge the batteries?
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 08:20 PM   #359
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmchugh View Post
I expect your fridge is a compressor fridge with no ammonia in it. It should be able to run on either 12v or 120v power and many simply flip the 120 volt breaker and run it on 12v all the time which is more efficient than 120 volt operation.
That is correct. I have forgetten compressor fridge does not use ammonia.
Thank you.
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2017, 08:58 PM   #360
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregmchugh View Post
If you do Facebook, consider joining the Roadtrek & Hymer Owners Group. Lots of owners there willing to share technical info. Open technical discussion allowed so different than the Roadtreking group.
Greg-he was there before here-lol. We warned him
__________________

gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×