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Old 07-27-2017, 01:23 PM   #211
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The odd thing is that yesterday when I arrived at the dealership and first saw the rig, one of their guys said they had it plugged into 30 amp but that after turning the ecotreks on they were not getting them on. But then after awhile they would pop on. The way he described it makes me think they were not fully charged even after the drive. Or there is just some kind of an issue with them waking up. Not sure. Need more testing.

I would have thought that regardless of the batteries, with the GU on there would be at least DC power in the coach. But that wasn't the case. Will know more after today.
In order to get regulated 12v DC power in the coach you need to have at least one Ecotrek online. With no Ecotreks online the GU is not connected to the load side of the battery bank. The inverter will operate without any Ecotreks online when connected to shore power but the 12v D.C. is very unstable with no batteries connected to the charger circuit. The inverter needs to be on to pass shore power through to the coach.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:32 PM   #212
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In order to get regulated 12v DC power in the coach you need to have at least one Ecotrek online. With no Ecotreks online the GU is not connected to the load side of the battery bank. The inverter will operate without any Ecotreks online when connected to shore power but the 12v D.C. is very unstable with no batteries connected to the charger circuit. The inverter needs to be on to pass shore power through to the coach.
So he should have 110v to the coach but not 12v if all modules are off or dead? Makes sense.

Where is the AGM in the picture with all this, I thought it was parallel to the lithiums? If so, it would go dead, also and then totally out of luck as mentioned earlier.

Maybe best to carry and old school basic battery charger to hook up and charge the AGM up to get it back up to voltage so the big chargers will work.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:37 PM   #213
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So he should have 110v to the coach but not 12v if all modules are off or dead? Makes sense.

Where is the AGM in the picture with all this, I thought it was parallel to the lithiums? If so, it would go dead, also and then totally out of luck as mentioned earlier.

Maybe best to carry and old school basic battery charger to hook up and charge the AGM up to get it back up to voltage so the big chargers will work.
As you know, every RT seems to be wired differently...

In the most common configuration, the charge side of the Ecotreks is connected to the GU, the auxiliary AGM, and the solar charge controller. The load side of the Ecotreks is usually only connected to the inverter/charger and the 12v distribution through the battery disconnect relay. With no Ecotreks online, the charge side is isolated from the load side and you cannot get 12v power from the GU or the AGM into the coach.

With the Ecotreks off, the AGM gets charged from the GU or Solar.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:40 PM   #214
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Did you do what Jim Hammill said? When you discharge your batteries down to 20% I assume software prevents them from further discharging. That is a safety feature. I order to bring them back online he said to push the reset button for 5 seconds. I assume this is to communicate power is available. Communications do not happen instantly or the software has to sense the recharge to kick in.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:45 PM   #215
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So he should have 110v to the coach but not 12v if all modules are off or dead? Makes sense.

Where is the AGM in the picture with all this, I thought it was parallel to the lithiums? If so, it would go dead, also and then totally out of luck as mentioned earlier.

Maybe best to carry and old school basic battery charger to hook up and charge the AGM up to get it back up to voltage so the big chargers will work.

The AGM is parallel to the ectreks.

From an implementation standpoint, it is a cheap and dirty arrangement.
From an electrical design standpoint, it does not make logical sense; because the AGM's charging profile is different to the ecotrek lithiums. Sooner then later, the AGM will fry, you will need to replace it on a regular basis.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:59 PM   #216
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Here is what Jim Hammil told me. I am shocked my religion and philosophy degree from 20 years ago did not better prepare me for operating complicated technology

------

You drained your batteries. Everything is working by the sounds of it. By draining the batteries on purpose you caused them to activate the BMS protections. They won't take power from the engine generator if they aren't reset. You don't need to go to a hotel, next time make sure the inverter is off at the box and on at the wall. Then reset the batteries and charge using the engine is fine. But draining 8 modules and then idling or plugging in takes time to charge and it won't do that fast with 8 modules on at idle.

Seems to me like everything is working fine. You don't need lights on the inverter box. Leave it off and turn it on and off at the wall.

Everything is working.
If you drain a massive battery capacity and try to charge it, it might need some time and resets to charge again.

Hope that all helps. It's all working. Try just using it normally. It works fine
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:09 PM   #217
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The AGM is parallel to the ectreks.

From an implementation standpoint, it is a cheap and dirty arrangement.
From an electrical design standpoint, it does not make logical sense; because the AGM's charging profile is different to the ecotrek lithiums. Sooner then later, the AGM will fry, you will need to replace it on a regular basis.
From everything I have seen, it appears that the charge profiles of all the chargers are set to an AGM tailored charge profile which will get max life out of the AGM with some potential penalty with getting the Ecotrek batteries all the way to full charge. How full do the Ecotreks get? No accurate info available to tell that presently but for most users I suspect getting close to full will be acceptable in terms of their use of the system.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:14 PM   #218
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Did you do what Jim Hammill said? When you discharge your batteries down to 20% I assume software prevents them from further discharging. That is a safety feature. I order to bring them back online he said to push the reset button for 5 seconds. I assume this is to communicate power is available. Communications do not happen instantly or the software has to sense the recharge to kick in.
Last night before I left I did do what he said with the 5 second reset button press for each battery. This morning when I came back, one of them was online and that allowed me to get shore power to the rest after I reset it and the inverter kicked on.

Taking care of paperwork stuff around town but will head back to the unit to "learn" some more
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:20 PM   #219
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It sounds like they are using a similar setup to what davydd describes in his ARV. Modules lockout and can't be used for 12v until reset, charged some, etc. He didn't say the reset procedure, I think the ARV was a hold the button thing IIRC.

If you are able to use the voltage from the lithiums to activate the charging systems, which this would indicate, I wonder why they would still need the AGM in the system?

Hammil points out one good point, though. This is a huge system and will take a long time to charge, especially at idle, probably in the range of 12 hours which you don't want to do in a Sprinter, or even close. Even driving, a full recharge will probably be 6-8 hours of charging. I do wonder how the Nations alternator will hold up to use like that if it is every couple of days.

How big is the shore charger in these big setups? The boat and class A folks talk about paralleling 100 amp chargers to get enough shore charging capacity for massive banks.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:28 PM   #220
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From everything I have seen, it appears that the charge profiles of all the chargers are set to an AGM tailored charge profile which will get max life out of the AGM with some potential penalty with getting the Ecotrek batteries all the way to full charge. How full do the Ecotreks get? No accurate info available to tell that presently but for most users I suspect getting close to full will be acceptable in terms of their use of the system.
In one of the home build lithium threads here, we did get a look at that, and I think the net conclusion was that stopping the charging at about 13.8v or so was probably a good spot, as they would be nearly full but wouldn't be at 100% or held at full charge voltage which is not good. The AGM profiles will be at about 13.5v, so will be lower SOC. The knee in the curve is very steep, so not a lot of change in SOC once you get past that 13.5v, IIRC. There will be no change in charging speed, as the charger is maxed out anyway, with the voltage still in the climbing toward absoption stage of 14.4v. If it bumps to float earlier, it will just sit there at the lower voltage, which I don't think we have ever seen an answer to if that is bad, or if the charger(s) should be shut off.
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