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Old 12-22-2014, 06:24 PM   #1
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Default 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

Adventures in the Mercedes service department with our brand new 2015/14 Roadtrek Extended Body Sprinter CS E-trek and our DEF problems.

On our first weekend overnight trip within less than 200 miles after taking delivery we had a CHECK ENGINE light come on followed by DEF LOW 10 RESTARTS then followed by DEF LOW 16 RESTARTS all within 100 miles of our starting point. We have the large DEF tank reported to be about 6 gallons in size located sort of under the passenger seat and over the fresh water tank. It only took a quart and it was full. Continued to drive and the CK ENGINE and DEF LOW 16 STARTS stayed on all the way home.

Called local Reading PA, Tom Masano Mercedes Sprinter dealer. Said YES they can work on and service our Roadtrek Conversion M-home Sprinter. They could only diagnose the computer that week and reset it as they were booked up. Took it to them and they checked the computer and it was showing multiple errors regarding the NOX sensors and showed no errors with DEF so they just reset it and sent me on my way. It’s a 90-minute drive and half-way home the CK ENGINE LIGHT came on. Called them when I got home and they said we could use it until they could schedule us to come in for service.

The next day we left with friends on a car driving trip to Disney Florida and Branson MO. Our daughters family was going to use the Roadtrek that weekend for a 2 day camping trip. I had explained about what to watch for to our son-in-law and they left on their vacation. Sure enough, CK ENGINE then DEF LOW 10 STARTS then DEF LOW 16 STARTS. By the time they came home it was down to 8 STARTS LEFT.

I called from Florida and asked the Reading PA MB dealer about a loaner car if we had someone take the MB to them: answer no. You didn’t buy it here but we will arrange for a free valet pick up and delivery. Works for me, especially since we were now in Florida. Reading MB picked it up and the next day they emailed and said they reset the computer and no problem. They wanted to test drive it the next day and try again. So 2 days later the email was: OUR SECOND TEST DRIVE SAME LIGHTS ARE COMING ON. UPON FURTHER INVESTIGATION LOOKS LIKE WHEN THE UPFITTER REINSTALLED THE ADBLUE TANK THEY PINCHED A LINE. WE CANNOT GET TO IT. IT WILL HAVE TO GET CORRECTED AT THE UPFITTER. YOU WILL NEED TO CONTACT YOUR DEALER TO SEE WHAT TO DO. SORRY COULD NOT DO MORE. WE WILL DELIVER THE CAMPER BACK TO YOU TODAY.

Imagine our shock when MB refuses to work on it due to the UPFITTER’s installation. I sent and email to RT to please call this dealer ASAP and when I did not get a reasonably quick answer, remember we’re away in Florida and this is back in PA and the MB dealer is going to redeliver it back to my home I called the MB dealer and said I was trying to make other arrangements with Roadtrek and verified he still had the motorhome there. He suggested a MB dealer in Lancaster PA. By then I had placed my “comments” about Roadtrek and some issues on the Facebook “Roadtreking: TheGroup”. That got a quick response from Jim Hammil about “now I’ve got his attention” and his staff would handle this quickly and told me he instructed the staff to contact the 1st dealer and then I suggested they also contact the Lancaster MB dealer. I was told via email that they would handle it and take care of getting it to a servicing dealer. Imagine my surprise when some 2+ hours later after leaving a show at Branson when I called the MB dealer in Lancaster and they had not heard from Roadtrek. So I called my selling dealer Fretz RV and asked them “who would they take it to?” They take theirs to MB of Ft. Washington, PA. I called them and they said “no problem” working on conversion MB Sprinters: they do it all the time. I immediately called back to Reading MB and asked them to deliver the vehicle to Ft Washington and they agreed.

The commentary from me regarding this problem and what I felt are fit-and-finish issues on the FB “RTking:TheGroup” is what got me “kicked off” of it and the “Roadtreking Forum,” both operated by Mike Wendland. Their loss, not mine. I can still read everything only I cannot help answer anyone’s questions.

Now the next day I called Ft Washington MB and they had already diagnosed an issue with a DEF module. Ordered one and it arrived the day before Thanksgiving. Installed it on Black Friday. Now there was next another issue with communications with the next DEF module in the circuit. Ordered one and when it came in it too was replaced. Now they began to see issues with the DEF spray-dosing pump. To access this and the DEF tank they had to remove first the lower body-side moldings, the motorized step and the fresh water tank. What you have no idea of is how much “inside” they have to remove to do all this. Driver seat removed, lower dash panel removed, inside covering of the column between passenger door and the sliding door removed, to name some of the major parts that needed to be removed to access the MB wiring.

Now the DEF dosing spray pump is replaced and still the diagnostics were not happy. 2 different DEF communication modules and a DEF dosing pump. Next they took down the DEF tank and its plumbing and made sure nothing was blocking it or anything strange inside the tank. All clear. When checking the “age” of the MB, sure it’s a 2014 build, they noticed it dated back to November 2013 and was among one of the early “builds.” MB changed their diagnostic software version when they built the 2014’s. So on a whim the service manager used the diagnostic software for the 2013 Sprinters. Now they are getting different readings and they pointed to the NOX sensors. Both were ordered and replaced. Viola! Everything seems to be OK. Reassemble all the parts that were removed so they could properly road test it. Done and working. Wow.

So on Nov 17th the 1st dealer picked it up and threw up his hands on the 20th. On the 21st it went to the 2nd dealer and I got it back from them on Dec 18th.

Several things I’ve learned along the way.

Don’t expect Roadtrek to get involved in a Mercedes problem. Handle it yourself no matter what Jim tells you. Maybe if I’d have waited another day or so while 1500 miles away from home his staff might have done something: but I was not waiting. Call your local Roadtrek dealer and ask which Mercedes shop they use and if possible visit the MB shop BEFORE you need them to see if they do in fact work on Sprinters. The first dealer does many FedEx trucks but I learned they apparently don’t want to work on things installed by an upfitter. You need more than a shop that does oil and lube service.

If necessary to access or service Mercedes parts MB “will pay” for the removal and reinstallation of upfitter installed items, “if” it is a “certified upfitter” and under MB warranty. Roadtrek is certified.

While at the dealer I asked if they could reprogram the Daytime Running Lights so that they are manually controlled with the dash switch as opposed to being on all the time when the engine was idling in a parking lot. No problem. Done.

I asked the Service Manager, when should I refill the DEF tank? His answer is when the first light comes on. I asked should I top it off every time I get fuel? He said that was kinda overkill and not really necessary but I could if I wanted to. My 2013 Sprinter had over 7000 miles when I traded it and I never added DEF nor did the light come on.

I have no complaints with the Ft Washington PA Mercedes dealer. They did things by-the-book, step-by-step. They have a procedure that they need to follow per Mercedes and I think they did it properly. But I do have a problem with Tom Masano Mercedes in Reading PA. Don’t tell me you can work on them completely when you really don’t want to. If they had said no in the beginning I would have called our selling dealer next and would have learned about Ft Washington sooner. Reading PA MB just happens to be slightly closer than Ft Washington.

Hoping that our next outing this weekend will not show anymore issues with warning lights from the dash.
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Old 12-22-2014, 06:47 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

This is good advice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerbill
........... Call your local Roadtrek dealer and ask which Mercedes shop they use and if possible visit the MB shop BEFORE you need them to see if they do in fact work on Sprinters. The first dealer does many FedEx trucks but I learned they apparently don’t want to work on things installed by an upfitter. You need more than a shop that does oil and lube service.
And this info is bound to greatly help others:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerbill
......... When checking the “age” of the MB, sure it’s a 2014 build, they noticed it dated back to November 2013 and was among one of the early “builds.” MB changed their diagnostic software version when they built the 2014’s. So on a whim the service manager used the diagnostic software for the 2013 Sprinters. Now they are getting different readings and they pointed to the NOX sensors. Both were ordered and replaced. Viola! Everything seems to be OK. Reassemble all the parts that were removed so they could properly road test it. Done and working..............
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Old 12-22-2014, 07:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

And a little admin note

Bikerbill has a couple of decades experience with RV's (correct me if I'm mistaken). He knows as well as or better than anyone that "stuff" can happen to these rigs, even new RV's. What I see here is the desire by him to get the problem solved promptly and report the solution to benefit others.

"Stuff" is going to happen from time to time. Feel free to report on it here but make sure you're looking to solve the problem.
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Old 12-22-2014, 08:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

markopolo is correct. Several decades of large Class A motorhome experience and the associated repairs and replacement of parts.

If I had not been away on vacation, without the Roadtrek, I would have handled it differently but the end results would probably have been the same. I'm satisfied with my Sprinter, so far as we've had a chance to use it. My prior was a 2014/13 Airstream Interstate and I had it from new with 35 miles and traded it off with some 7500 miles and NO, I repeat, NO issues with the Sprinter at all.

This new 2015/14 Roadtrek arrives with several hundred miles as it is driven to the dealers. In the first 200 miles I had a bad experience. I blame it totally on Mercedes and the 1st service dealer. It appears to be an ongoing issue they have with both the DEF and NOX systems. I don't fault the 2nd MB dealer but I do fault the 1st one for not being a quality Sprinter dealer. They have the franchise but not the facility to work on motorhomes so they decided to pass-the-buck. And I also fault Mercedes Cust Service for not getting more proactive when I did get in touch with them. The dealer has a procedure to follow before he can even call for "help" from MB and he was following it. But when I called Cust Service at MB and explained, it was "not that important" I guess. Oh well, it is fixed, we hope.
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Old 12-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

Oh, man, that is quite a saga. We had a similar experience this summer with 2013 RT. Kept getting CEL followed quickly by 10-starts-remaining DEF message. Sprinter dealer out there couldn't fix it and, after three tries, recommended starting a technical inquiry with MB, which could take up to a week. We eventually headed home to Indiana with 10 starts remaining. Made it back with 5 starts remaining. MB in Indy diagnosed it as NOx sensors, replaced both and kept it for a couple days for road testing. No further problems after 3500 miles.
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Old 12-23-2014, 03:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

It seems Class B owners, especially first time RV owners, have a difficult time distinguishing between what is a converter's responsibility and what is the chassis cab manufacturer's responsibility. Then it is compounded by the myriad of installation equipment warranty cards you are given for refrigerator, microwave, air conditioner, etc. It is next to impossible for a newbie to sort out. Then what is the responsibility when a converter modifies or damages a chassis item or adds stuff in the way of normal maintenance? Too bad RV dealers don't have the capability of performing one stop service. And here I am buying a dealerless Class B.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

Davydd, the interesting thing I learned is that if a converter is "certified" by Mercedes, then MB will pay to remove and reinstall items installed by the converter if they need to access MB parts. Not sure if I buy the extended MB warranty if that holds true and before I would, I will find out. And yes, Roadtrek is certified. Advanced I think says they are somewhere but last I looked at MB list of certified upfitters, Advanced wasn't on it.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

bikerbill-ilooked on the'preffered upfitter" list forsprinters-
advanced rv was number 3.

http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/upfitters- ... d-upfitter
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

I knew Advanced RV was a preferred upfitter. That was never in question in my mind. Mercedes Benz was at Advanced Fest in force last May as was VB Air Suspension and other partners. They don't sell through a dealer network so you know there are no conflicts of interest in whether they are serving the customer or the dealer. It is definitely the customer right down to dealing and getting to personally know the staff on all facets of the work. That's not just me. Every ARV customer gets more attention than Campskunk and Mike Wendland do at Roadtrek.
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Old 12-23-2014, 11:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: 2015/14 Roadtrek Sprinter DEF Adventures with Mercedes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
It seems Class B owners, especially first time RV owners, have a difficult time distinguishing between what is a converter's responsibility and what is the chassis cab manufacturer's responsibility. Then it is compounded by the myriad of installation equipment warranty cards you are given for refrigerator, microwave, air conditioner, etc. It is next to impossible for a newbie to sort out. Then what is the responsibility when a converter modifies or damages a chassis item or adds stuff in the way of normal maintenance? Too bad RV dealers don't have the capability of performing one stop service. And here I am buying a dealerless Class B.
I think it's the same problem will all motorhomes. A friend has a class A made by Tifin, but has to go to Freightliner for servicing of chassis.


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