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Old 04-18-2017, 02:23 AM   #1
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Default Camping on the street

Don't know any details yet. Not judging one way or the other.

But-bad things can happen if you look like you don't belong someplace, and there is a problem, or misunderstanding.

BCA Investigating Vadnais Heights Officer-Involved Shooting « WCCO | CBS Minnesota
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:08 PM   #2
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I wouldn't let that interfere with how I camp, in any way, shape or form. Who knows what might have caused that.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:35 PM   #3
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I agree, but it does point out that wherever you stop to spend the night situational awareness is critical. If you stop on a street somewhere you should be aware of the neighborhood, pull the shades, keep lights low and go to bed quietly without loud radio or TV. Even then, if you get a knock on the door, be cautious. If it is the police be polite, move cautiously and let them know what you are going to do.
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Old 04-19-2017, 02:53 PM   #4
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I had some magnetic signs made that say "Canine Security Services", even has a phone number; for those who remember: 867-5309.
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Old 04-19-2017, 03:28 PM   #5
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I would love to do a 1 year nomadic van adventure but police are on heightened alert in the US and are prone to shoot 1st and ask questions later. They assume the worst and will cite 'sensing an imminent threat'.

Some cities offer places where people who live in their vehicles can park in a safe designated space overnight but cannot camp there 24-7.

Everyone tends to be more suspicious and assumes the worst. A couple who sold their home and live full time in their van maintain a YouTube channel - Exploring Alternatives

They speak to not staying in a place too long at night and using public spaces during the day. They both work remotely, are not grubby, and are very intelligent. I would not see them as a problem if they parked outside my home.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:24 PM   #6
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Yes! I live in Ca and all police routinely shoot people for sport.
Sounds insane? Yes, That's what the Snowflakes here in CA are spouting. I have friends and family in law enforcement and thats so far from the truth it makes me sick.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFry View Post
I agree, but it does point out that wherever you stop to spend the night situational awareness is critical. If you stop on a street somewhere you should be aware of the neighborhood, pull the shades, keep lights low and go to bed quietly without loud radio or TV. Even then, if you get a knock on the door, be cautious. If it is the police be polite, move cautiously and let them know what you are going to do.
I think what you say is why this really struck me as scary. As more is coming out on it, I might say even more scary. It was in a light business area, it appears, decent neighborhood, and the guy and apparently his girlfriend, were living in the van and had been around there for at least several days, moving a bit occasionally. By most accounts there were no complaints from the neighborhood, and it was the police that flagged it as a "suspicious vehicle" and decided to investigate it. The girlfriend appears to have been in a car parked behind the van when the police showed up, and the guy was inside the van. Police went into the van, and from there something happened to make the guy shot and dead.

So far, it looks like they did what most say is the best to do. Low profile, quiet, no mess, stay inside, which is different from most "hassle" stories we hear about, which don't leave anyone dead.
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClassB4Me View Post
I would love to do a 1 year nomadic van adventure but police are on heightened alert in the US and are prone to shoot 1st and ask questions later. They assume the worst and will cite 'sensing an imminent threat'.
I have to take issue with this. Merely because use-of-force incidents are reported on by the press regularly doesn't mean that every cop treats every citizen they contact that way every time. This is a gross mischaracterization of what's happening in the US today. First, there is no "the police" as a hierarchical, nation-wide organization to be on "heightened alert." There is no "central command" for police departments. Nationally each PD and SO answer only to their own local command structure and policies and procedures. It's about as de-centralized of a "system" as you can imagine.

There have been more instances of cops being ambushed, injured and killed by the public in the past couple of years as folks who have a positive duty to peacefully submit to arrest by a peace officer fail to perform that duty. More citizens have been willing to randomly and violently attack other citizens AND cops. Cops are more wary, which contributes to their self-preservation, but they're not on "heightened alert" as though they were waiting for an invasion. On the other hand, cops have the absolute right to use "that amount of force necessary to overcome the resistance offered" during an arrest. That more citizens have more frequently failed to submit to arrest as is required of them by law has lead to more visible and newsworthy use-of-force incidents being reported.

The 250,000 independent-thinking cops in this country make literally millions of uneventful citizen contacts daily with very few of them turning violent unless the citizen they contact is or becomes violent and resists. To be afraid of touring the country because of those few incidents is akin to being so afraid of lightning or tornadoes that you never leave your own house.

Generally speaking, if you're non-threatening and compliant when you deal with cops on the street and you treat them with the same basic respect you require for yourself, you'll be treated with that same kind of respect you offer them. Cops, with good reason, have a healthy dose of wariness and skepticism for self-preservation, but to label them 'trigger-happy' just isn't accurate or reasonable.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:19 PM   #9
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I would love to do a 1 year nomadic van adventure but police are on heightened alert in the US and are prone to shoot 1st and ask questions later. They assume the worst and will cite 'sensing an imminent threat'.

There is nothing to take issue with. Your choice to Assume is part of the problem. I would ask instead of 'taking issue' with a sentence, maybe have a dialog. Life is nuanced but if people choose to let assumptions drive intercourse we are in trouble as a society.

I have family as well who serves and protects. Any time a police officer walks up to a car they have to assume the worst. If the person in a car makes a sudden move that officer may not make it home that night. These are the times we live in.

I am old enough to remember a time that many of us never would think a mother with children in the car would be a threat to an officer. However, the culture has changed and we can cite examples of women recently evading officer, threatening their lives.

As a result, driver profiles that were once not perceived as a threat cannot be treated as such anymore.

- More people carry guns / weapons (legally / illegally)
- People are told violence occurs more frequently
- Almost every discussion is politicized
- And yes some people are anti police officer and make assumptions (until they need one)
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:34 PM   #10
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I live in CA as well and in other parts of the US and have never had a bad interaction with a police offer. NEVER. Even when I thought the situation was not correct, the interaction was professional.

My fear is demonization of the police force in total is simplistic and puts everyone at risk. I don't know what is driving this but I have a suspicion.

Police officers have better technology on board (license place scanners, more comprehensive database, etc.) and can obtain a better profile of the people they believe they pull over.

Therefore, if you have a long record of problems, outstanding warrants, etc. the officer will know before he steps out of the car.

His posture towards you will change (because he has more detailed info). This is a world that I have zero experience with and these stories about systemic police violence disturb me.
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