Cassette Toilets - Why Not?

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I am not sure I understand your post. Having experience in both porta potty and cassette I would view comparison similarly of comparing a Yugo to a Cadillac, both have 4 wheels as both have the same s…...

Perhaps there's a clarification to be made with respect to brand?

There have been various attempts to put lipstick on this particular pig, bells and whistles including one configuration that involves taking the cassette out through the side of the vehicle instead of through the interior (Europe's invention IIRC), but TMK, they all operate according to a similar principle: there is a waste chamber that is detached from the body of the loo and then taken manually on a stroll to the dump station.

Or are we considering some other tech that doesn't pop up when googling "cassette toilet"?

Higher- and lower-end examples:

[W9TR]

We’ve owned black tank campers and porta-potty camping vans and now a cassette B-van, the Thor Tellaro 20AT. Since we seldomly camp in established campgrounds with dump stations the Thetford cassette system works very well for us.

All other things being equal, the floorplan we wanted came with a Thetford cassette. Some responses to this thread make it sound like a life and death situation. It’s not.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by W9TR

.............................. Some responses to this thread make it sound like a life and death situation. It’s not.

This is by far the best description of Cassette discussions on InternetS.

[kmessinger]

Cassette toilets are not allowed in some commercial and Ca. State Parks.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

George, having never owned either, I have always been curious. What is the difference—serious, not facetious, question from an ignoramus.

I have Thetford 402C for seven years and various porta potties prior. I can speak diligently about 402C specifically and various small to large porta potties.

Thetford 402C:
1. The toilet is mounted permanently, it is stable. It includes flush water tank and pump.
2. Removable – slide out cassette is on wheels. Removal doesn’t require separating and lifting upper assembly with water like in a porta potty.
3. Cassette is automatically vented when inserted to the toilet, the vent valve is on top in the cassette with output on the bottom.
4. Cassette has safety plate on the top seal for transport

Porta potty:
1. Portable, can be placed on a slider / drawer

I modified my diagram - red font is for cassette only.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by kmessinger

Cassette toilets are not allowed in some commercial and Ca. State Parks.

Since when? I have been in Ca state park with my van which has cassette toilet. Can you provide a link? We are going there soon, it would be nice to know.

EDIT

I found it, "self-contained" means no cassette nor porta patties. I didn't know that. https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=29803

Seacliff State park has no dump station, could be the reason.
http://www.californiasbestcamping.co.../seacliff.html

With a cassette system gaining popularity in NA just wonder if outlawing cassettes will last, but I could be wrong.

[kmessinger]

Yeah, I think it is weird. And we camped for years in a Eurovan with a porta-potty.
But what can I say, it's California!

[booster]

I certainly can understand the CA rule about no cassette or portapotti since they don't have dump station to go to. Have you ever been in a public toilet in a campground after somebody has dumped, poorly, their cassette? 1/2 on the floor, 1/4 on the seat, and quietly walk away. I have seen such in a pit toilet.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

I certainly can understand the CA rule about no cassette or portapotti since they don't have dump station to go to. Have you ever been in a public toilet in a campground after somebody has dumped, poorly, their cassette? 1/2 on the floor, 1/4 on the seat, and quietly walk away. I have seen such in a pit toilet.

I have seen many disgracefully dirty toilets with surroundings, tough to judge if cassettes were the culprits or just don’t care attitudes. I have seen clumps of left-over shtuff in dumping stations, but in dumping station there is always a water hose, not in restrooms.

FIT RV Winnebago ECCO review backpedaling at 10:00, never say never.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxXY8FGG-bo

[InterBlog]

That’s their loaner rig. It’ll be interesting to see whether they keep the cassette when theirs gets delivered (using eight times the recommended chemicals), or replace it with their composting standby.

[GeorgeRa]

I doubt they have done much testing; I think they used 8 times higher dose because it is in a convenient package. I use about a spoon of Odorlos (primarily ammonium and calcium nitrates) per load, convenient and enough.

I think composting toilet could be too big for EKKO. But, foot in mouth disease could force them to hitch separating toilet.

[InterBlog]

The pods they show in that film... by coincidence, yesterday before I saw this vid, I was standing in the aisle at West Marine debating which tank treatment to try next.

I have used Odorlos for a few years, but I don't consider it to be the miracle-worker that it's often proclaimed to be, so perhaps it's worth experimenting.

The other choices were those Aqua-Kem pods and West Marine's own branded liquid.

My issues with the Aqua-Kem alternative were:

(a) I hesitated to add that much chemical to a black tank system and perhaps affect the seals, and
(b) it's about two bucks per pod. That's a heck of a price for treating a few gallons at a time in a small van black tank system (or a cassette).

So I picked up the West Marine liquid to try.

SIDEBAR:

Walking into West Marine, I saw a large display of bean bag chairs near the entrance. I can see the potential for boaters because they can plop that kind of thing down on the deck or dock, and not worry about getting flung to the ground, as might happen if they place a portable camp chair with spindly little legs on a heaving boat.

But the danged things are $150 - for a bean bag chair!! And I thought to myself, "I know it's West Marine and they sell higher-end stuff, but are you kidding me?! A hundred and fifty bucks?!"

Heh. Then I sat in one. The thing is *heaven*. I predict they will be good sellers. Not practical for Class B travel, but my husband are in the process of building a small lake cottage with a partial-height sleeping loft, and it would wonderful to use in such a space because full-height chairs obviously won't fit. Once again, West Marine will be separating me from some cash.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

The pods they show in that film... by coincidence, yesterday before I saw this vid, I was standing in the aisle at West Marine debating which tank treatment to try next.

I have used Odorlos for a few years, but I don't consider it to be the miracle-worker that it's often proclaimed to be, so perhaps it's worth experimenting.

The other choices were those Aqua-Kem pods and West Marine's own branded liquid.

My issues with the Aqua-Kem alternative were:

(a) I hesitated to add that much chemical to a black tank system and perhaps affect the seals, and
(b) it's about two bucks per pod. That's a heck of a price for treating a few gallons at a time in a small van black tank system (or a cassette).

So I picked up the West Marine liquid to try.

....................

I am not expert in this field but this is the info I gather over the years dealing with RV or boat waste tanks.

I believe there are 3 treatment types for black tank and none of them are perfect. Poop/pee smells, more or less depending on the type of treatment. Most smelly are black tanks with waste deprived from oxygen when anaerobic bacteria can flourish producing sulfides and mercaptans.

1. Oxygen based, usually nitrides like ammonium nitride or calcium nitride. It seems as West Marine treatments are based on nitrides as well as Odorlos. West marine claims fast acting, that is a marketing spin.
2. Perfumes.
3. Kill all bacteria, anaerobic and aerobic with formaldehyde like Thetford Aqua Chem, just poop pee odor is left plus whatever fragrance is used.

Let us know how you like West Marine chemicals, looks like they are less expensive than Odorlos.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

That’s their loaner rig. It’ll be interesting to see whether they keep the cassette when theirs gets delivered (using eight times the recommended chemicals), or replace it with their composting standby.

They are keeping the cassette in their actual EKKO and James has invented a connector to attach to the cassette spout that allows you to connect a regular sewer hose to the cassette to dump into a dump station. I don’t plan to get one of his adapters but many people on the EKKO group seem to worry a lot about spilling cassette contents with a direct dump into the dump station and he will probably sell a lot of them, something that has never been a problem for me.

Not really much choice on the initial EKKO since there is not any reasonable way to replace the cassette toilet with anything else. I uses the Thetford C220 cassette toilet that attaches directly to the back wall of the bathroom and there is not room to remove it and use a composting toilet or switch to any type of black tank toilet.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

James has invented a connector to attach to the cassette spout that allows you to connect a regular sewer hose to the cassette to dump into a dump station. I don’t plan to get one of his adapters but many people on the EKKO group seem to worry a lot about spilling cassette contents with a direct dump into the dump station and he will probably sell a lot of them, something that has never been a problem for me.

There were a lot of things I disliked about using a cassette toilet, but actually emptying the cassette was not one of them. Once one manages to lug the full cassette to the dump station, actually dumping it is trivial. It is true that I was using a European-style dump station in Iceland, which is designed for cassettes, but I really don't see that making a significant difference. As George says, the cassette is quite well-designed for its purpose. To my eye, James' invention appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

There were a lot of things I disliked about using a cassette toilet, but actually emptying the cassette was not one of them. Once one manages to lug the full cassette to the dump station, actually dumping it is trivial. It is true that I was using a European-style dump station in Iceland, which is designed for cassettes, but I really don't see that making a significant difference. As George says, the cassette is quite well-designed for its purpose. To my eye, James' invention appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

Agree completely but you wouldn’t believe how many people are not going to buy an EKKO simply because of the cassette toilet and their issues with how to dump it. He is filling a demand that is there to allow easy dumping at a dump station from people who have never actually tried to do it. Not sure if he wants it for himself too or not.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

There were a lot of things I disliked about using a cassette toilet, but actually emptying the cassette was not one of them. Once one manages to lug the full cassette to the dump station, actually dumping it is trivial. It is true that I was using a European-style dump station in Iceland, which is designed for cassettes, but I really don't see that making a significant difference. As George says, the cassette is quite well-designed for its purpose. To my eye, James' invention appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Agree completely but you wouldn’t believe how many people are not going to buy an EKKO simply because of the cassette toilet and their issues with how to dump it. He is filling a demand that is there to allow easy dumping at a dump station from people who have never actually tried to do it. Not sure if he wants it for himself too or not.

I can see some value of his gadget on the driveway where a spill cannot be contained, it could flow flow to a neighbor or the street. But if someone is already at home who would they want to go through an additional complexity instead of dumping goodies into a toilet? I agree, this is a solution to a non-existing problem, at least not existing for me.

Dumping in an RV dump station will allow hosing in case there was a spill, so this device is useless.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I would certainly hope ARV knows more about conversion business than me, they are doing it for living. Looking forward to see road clearance on your finish van.

The road clearance is ample and as far as I can tell the tanks are not as low as the Sprinter diesel tank itself and definitely well above the the MB body, the side skirts or add on nerf bar sides. You can see that in various ARV videos on YouTube. I'm not getting four wheel drive but am lifting my van about 2" with Sumo springs. So I anticipate about a minimum 8" clearance for my side nerf bars that hide the macerator, dump hose, dump pull handles, outdoor shower, and city water fill. The passenger side is the added fixed step for the sliding door. In other words, the tanks will be no problem for clearance.

[Davydd]

I watched the FitRV video on the EKKO. I get the feeling they excuse a lot of stuff and rationalize acceptance like they went overboard on a previous video justifying a composting toilet that totally turned me off on one. It's a Class C with much greater room than a van and they accepted the concept of a cassette toilet saying it was just a reverse curl to take the cassette out? Laden with chemicals so they don't have to smell it when discharging? What is with that? Don't rinse it every time? They are both exercise fanatics didn't they say before and you drink a lot of water and eat a lot of calories needing a lot of capacity? Dump every day or water a lot of trees in the woods? That bathroom toilet is a contortionist dream for leg space. So much for their vaunted checklist for the perfect RV.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I watched the FitRV video on the EKKO. I get the feeling they excuse a lot of stuff and rationalize acceptance like they went overboard on a previous video justifying a composting toilet that totally turned me off on one. It's a Class C with much greater room than a van and they accepted the concept of a cassette toilet saying it was just a reverse curl to take the cassette out? Laden with chemicals so they don't have to smell it when discharging? What is with that? Don't rinse it every time? They are both exercise fanatics didn't they say before and you drink a lot of water and eat a lot of calories needing a lot of capacity? Dump every day or water a lot of trees in the woods? That bathroom toilet is a contortionist dream for leg space. So much for their vaunted checklist for the perfect RV.

Ok Ok, so may I quote you Again. So far as I can make out, TWO (2) of THE Most Classic posts concerning.........not sure how to explain what the 2 most classic posts concerning B sh*t stuff I can think of can be explained.

Thank you, great fun.

Bud