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Old 01-11-2019, 03:10 PM   #21
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You may want to consider the now discounted Hawk rotors. I bought a spare set of fronts at the $50 apiece when an earlier post listed them, as that is 1/3 of normal price. That deal isn't around anymore, but there is a set on ebay for a bit more with free shipping for what should be the rears.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hawk-Perfor...knN2:rk:1:pf:0
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:27 PM   #22
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Actually, I don't think either of the those rotors are right for your van, assuming you have the hub sticking through the wheel like you mention. That hub would indicate that it is a full floating Dana 70s axle. You could confirm by checking to see if you have a factory transmission cooler in front of the radiator, which would indicate that you have the trailer towing package which is the cooler plus the Dana 70s. Does you axle still have the tag on the rear of the driver side axle tube, just inside the spring perch? It would say 60s or 70s for the model number. I don't even see the 1771039 listed on Rock Auto for a 2003 unless I missed it.

If you do have the 70s, you would want a center hole/bore (don't know why they would have different measurements on them unless one said "maximum" center hole diameter which would just add manufacturing tolerance). Some of the rotors on Rock Auto do have that callout. The full floating 70s would take the a rotor with a 122.7mm or 4.84" center hole. The 118mm should be for the 60s semi floater. The 70s will have the height at 91mm plus or minus a little, while the 60s would be at 86mm. I got these dimensions from comparing a lot of sources as there was a lot of variation, and likely bad application data. Some even listed some rotors for both axles and they had the height half way in between the two stock specs. The Rock Auto spec area that you get from clicking on the part number after searching by vehicle looks to be just cut and paste from AC Delco. Unfortunately, they don't have the specs on all the different rotors.

Aside from the above dimensions, when you look at the specs for the rotors, they will sometimes say they are for the 10.5" ring gear axle, and that would be the 70s which it sounds like you have. Rock Auto does have some called out that way.

Just noticed the pic. That is a full floating axle, so should be a Dana 70s.

That is one rough looking rotor. Maybe the color of the pic vs my screen is off, but it looks like it has been very hot. Be sure to check the caliper sliders and pistons to make sure nothing is stuck, as there looks to be a lot of rust around that area.
1- I screwed up. The pn I gave you (1771039 and 18a1206) were for the front, but my question still remains, hole vs bore dia. for these pn. Furthermore, acdelco lists both pn ok for my van when I searched their website with my VIN.

2- Besides this difference in dimention (bore/hole), the other difference mentionned is that pn1771039 has disc/hat finished turned/painted respectively and pn 18a1206 has disc/hat finished ground/turned respectively. Do you prefer/suggest one or the other ?

3- As for the rear rotors, you are right (again). Your specs match with what I had found at rockauto (pn 177861 + 18a926). Again the difference being the finish as mentionned for the front ones.

4- Not to get off topic, but now that I know I have a full floating rear axle, what are the pros and cons of this setup ? Is there a thread that I should read somewhere ?

5- Regarding the rotors look, the pic is of poor quality and what you see is rust rust rust. Just purchased the van this summer and looking at the carfax, I noticed the vehicule was in the maritimes for more than 10 years. Also I believe the whole setup is original, so no wonder there. As mentionned before when in the shop yesterday, we removed one front and one rear rotor to have a better look at things and surprisingly the sliders/pins looked like they were still lubricated (probably some maintenance along the way). Also the pads looked like half gone in the front but almost new in the rear and wearing evenly inside and out, but I think this is normal with (OE) with 60k miles. (check out the pic)

Thanks again for sharing your experience.
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Old 01-11-2019, 06:52 PM   #23
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[QUOTE=booster;85926]You may want to consider the now discounted Hawk rotors. I bought a spare set of fronts at the $50 apiece when an earlier post listed them, as that is 1/3 of normal price. That deal isn't around anymore, but there is a set on ebay for a bit more with free shipping for what should be the rears.

Thanks for the link but they do not ship to Canada.
I was already checking out this company but more specifically for their pads. I read in a review (on amazon.com I think) about friction coeff. and Hawks were rated FF and most other brands were more like EE.

1- Do you know of any other brands beside Hawk that have higher ratings than EE for pads ?

2- Can this rating be correlated to the pulsating effect people experience on long hills while braking ? (ei. Rockies, Smokey Mountains)

3- Do you have any toughts about a combination (OE) Acdelco rotors / Hawk pads ?

I feel I am getting closer to a solution with all your insight and hope others will benefit from all this.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:32 PM   #24
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Now we are making progress.


My best guess is that the bore diameter difference is a typo someplace that gets repeated. It happens a lot in this kind of stuff, but there is no certainty that this is the issue. You do want the bore to be hub centric as brake loads can be pretty large. The front rotors are the same for all the single wheel full bodied vans, so going be application should be OK.


As far as the finish goes, essentially all of the manufacturers have added some kind of paint, rust preventive coating, etc as an option. It is a good profit center for them and can be a good thing if you are in rust country and drive in the slop. All the coatings are not equal, however, and the only way to know is dig through reviews or try them yourself. We are in Minnesota, and when I did DW's CRV brakes this fall I did spring for the "coated" Centric rotors as things rust a lot here. The most important area is the inside locating surface of the rotors IMO as rust there will give you runout. Some don't coat that surface, mostly the painted ones. The dipped rotors are completely covered and some then take it off the braking surface and some don't need to.


I remember that review and even looked into the ratings a bit after reading it. I just looked and our spare set of pads in the LTS compound are rated FF on the pads. I have never really considered the ratings as they have such a wide range and they don't test the other very, very, important properties like initial bite and release. Even within a rating like FF, there is so much range you could have pads that either bit well when cold and poorly when hot or the other way around. Things like initial bite can be very important if it isn't the style you like. DW's Japan built CRV had pad/rotor combinations that made the initial bite way to aggressive and it was a pain to drive. With Akebono pads all is great now. Brakes are so personal preference driven, about all you can do is read what everyone says about the different brands and how they perform for them. Personally, I like a moderate initial bit and progression of force to stop faster. I don't want the those properties to change much when the pads get hot. For my preferences, the Hawk LTS compound is probably the best I have had for a heavy vehicle. I have high end Raybestos semi metallic pads in my also pretty heavy (5K#) old Buick, and they are also very good. I don't know what other pads are rated at letterwise as that is tough to find for most of the manufacturers, I think, unless you can physically look at the pads. IMO, the reviewer was putting way to much importance on the rating compared to finding information on personal experience in similar vehicles.


I don't think the rating is going to be a good indicator of the pulsing problem, as it really isn't a severe heat issue and more of issue related to how well a pad transfers material to the rotors. The problem shows up when the brakes get hot, but with proper material transfer the same amount of hot would not cause pulsing. Early on we intentionally overheated ours a bit, to the point of smelling them, to see if they would pulse and they did not. The OEM ceramic pads would be pulsing long before that temperature. The pads have to have just the right amount of abrasion to refresh the transfered material without grinding it all of or wrecking the rotors, so it pretty picky. A good rotor with transfer material on it will look like a dull gun metal color grey, almost like paint.


Over time, I have modified my thoughts on rotor importance. In the beginning it appeared that the very best of rotors would be the only ones that would survive well, but more and more people have had acceptable results with even good condition stock rotors when equipped with the right pads. The pads seem to be much more important than the rotors for the pulsing issues. That said, I would not use low end rotors in a heavy class B in the mountains, as they will not handle high heat as well as better ones. I don't care at all for drilled rotors, and slotted only if they are the very small asymmetrical slots which will somewhat help keep the pads clean. Mid high plain rotors seem to do OK with good pads, from what we have seen lately. Hawk pads on Delco rotors would not bother me at all.


With any rotor, always check the runout with and indicator after installing them, with the lugnuts on and tight, but upside down to get the flat surface on the rotors. Rust on the hubs can give bad runout, especially on older vehicles. I had to use tapered shims on the rear of our van because of the very rust damaged hubs on the used 70s axle I installed.


I think you are on the right track on this with the directions you are leaning.


Re the full floating rear axle. You hit the jackpot as that axle is vastly superior to the semi floating 60s in most Roadtrek Chevies. It has at least 1000# more capacity, much larger ring gear and bearings, and the full floating axles put two huge tapered roller bearings at each wheel, so the hubs run much cooler. You even probably get less tire pressure increase because of the cooler hubs than you would with the 60s. Be aware that the rear wheel bearings are adjustable like old school fronts were before the sealed ones took over. They don't need it often, but is good to check when you have wheel off the ground. You should just be able to feel a tiny amount of play when rocking the wheel and tire.



Good luck with your project!
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:05 PM   #25
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Those look like my front pins, they were in good shape too. My rear ones were completely frozen and corroded to the point I needed new brackets as well.

I've heard nothing bad about the full floating axle. In fact, several members here have upgraded their Roadtreks to a full floating axle. I personally would like it if ours had one, but it does not.

IIRC booster in 2014 installed the Hawk pads on OEM ACDelco rotors on the rear, I installed the same combo late last year. The part number I posted was for the semi-floating Dana 60S rear axle, I think he posted the number for the full floating Dana 70 rear axle in an earlier post, assuming you have confirmed you have the Dana 70.

We have been in a couple of situations that heated the brakes significantly since they were installed and have had no pulsating issues at all.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:04 AM   #26
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Those look like my front pins, they were in good shape too. My rear ones were completely frozen and corroded to the point I needed new brackets as well.

I've heard nothing bad about the full floating axle. In fact, several members here have upgraded their Roadtreks to a full floating axle. I personally would like it if ours had one, but it does not.

IIRC booster in 2014 installed the Hawk pads on OEM ACDelco rotors on the rear, I installed the same combo late last year. The part number I posted was for the semi-floating Dana 60S rear axle, I think he posted the number for the full floating Dana 70 rear axle in an earlier post, assuming you have confirmed you have the Dana 70.

We have been in a couple of situations that heated the brakes significantly since they were installed and have had no pulsating issues at all.

You have a very good memory! I got into the same corner as everyone with the 60s axle did if they wanted to go to Hawk parts all the way, no rear rotors available. Since they looked OK, I sanded our originals just to try it, and as it turned out they were fine for the couple of years we ran them before I switched out the axle to the 70s. We have since seen a few people do similar in the front also and haven't heard of any early failures or problems yet. I would expect the OEM rotors to possibly not last quite as long as the higher alloy, more expensive ones on semi metallic pads, but that doesn't mean the can't stay straight and not pulse, just that they may need to be replaced a bit sooner.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:47 PM   #27
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Since our van is sitting on the stands with the wheels off, I went out and took a few pix of our rotors and brake areas. I had them off to check pad thickness and sliders plus put some grease in the front hubs. The rotor appearance is "as run" except for a wipe down with brake cleaner, so this is basically how they look all the time.

The reddish color on the pix is left over brake dust which I don't normally worry about getting off completely. Getting the right colors and such with pix on somewhat shiny stuff is difficult, so I took these without flash and then slightly brightened them on Photoshop, so look pretty accurate on my computer screen.

Here is the front rotor, which has been in place for 30K miles of relatively tough conditions. Skyline Drive, Blue Ridge Parkway, Smoky Mountain Parkway. At least a dozen times up through the Rockies. Almost the entire coast highway. We do not baby them. I sanded half of piece of angle iron and put on top of the rotor so it is easier to tell what color the rotor surface really is. The sanded area is what a new rotor would look like.





From a bit closer




You can also see the marker numbers from when I checked the runout and the chalk that marks the stud to rotor orientation for getting them back where they came off. The backward nuts are needed for runout check and also to prevent debris from getting behind the rotors and messing up runout as they sit like this.


Here is the rear which has about 20K miles on it.






The little pipe plug on the hub is to allow draining of oil in the hub and refilling the hub and even the entire axle at fluid change. If you don't get oil in the hubs after they have been off, they will run dry for a while until splash gets there. A bit of wheel bearing grease in the bearings when you put them in will also prevent the issue.


My guess is that 90% of the people I know, except for hardcore car geeks, would look at those rotors and say they are dark because they have been overheated and need to be replaced. They expect to see a shiny clean iron surface like a new rotor would have. This is absolutely not the case and I would say these look near perfect. If you have shiny clean metal, it means your pads aren't depositing material properly which seems to be very common with a lot of the ceramic pads. If the dark surface has imprints of the pads, or is darker or lighter as you go around the rotor, then you may have an issue. Small, round, dark bluish or black spots are likely hard spots in the metal and very uncommon in high end rotors, but a way of life in cheap ones. They will cause thumping noises when braking and a small pulse.


When I take the brakes apart like I did this year, if all is good I just wipe down the rotor braking surface to remove and fingerprints and grease, clean the locating surface well, and give the pads a very light sanding on a flat surface with 60 grit paper to give a sharp surface to help reseat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rotor front1.jpg (66.8 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Rotor front2.jpg (58.6 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Rotor rear.jpg (54.8 KB, 53 views)
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:11 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Luv2Go View Post
Those look like my front pins, they were in good shape too. My rear ones were completely frozen and corroded to the point I needed new brackets as well.

IIRC booster in 2014 installed the Hawk pads on OEM ACDelco rotors on the rear, I installed the same combo late last year. The part number I posted was for the semi-floating Dana 60S rear axle, I think he posted the number for the full floating Dana 70 rear axle in an earlier post, assuming you have confirmed you have the Dana 70.

We have been in a couple of situations that heated the brakes significantly since they were installed and have had no pulsating issues at all.
Thanks, Always reassuring when somebody else concurs on the experience about not pulsing with this combo. As for the pins, turns out that I did not see the mechanic when he took the rear caliper off, I was in the front taking pix and did not even have a look at the rear pins.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:05 AM   #29
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Booster, I am just about to order acdelco rotors pn 177861 and 177139 for the rear and front respectively for my 2003 pop 190 exp 3500 70's dana and I hope they are the right ones. Some websites say they fit some don't. Do you think I am ok here ?

I researched a lot about pads and as you mentionned before, Hawk pads (LTS) look like they have the upper hand especially for mountain areas(pulsating prob). However, I was dissapointed not to find much info on pad/rotor combination.

You did mention also that you had good success with Raybestos pads, so I also checked them out.
Here are a couple combinations pad/rotor I am thinking about. Any suggestions/concerns/ideas would be appreciated.

acdelco(oe) rotors / hawk(LTS,hb322y.717 + hb494y.670) pads
I know you like that combo, I just hope they are the right pads.

acdelco(oe) rotors / raybestos(police, SP784PSH + SP974PSH) pads.

acdelco(oe) rotors / raybestos(school bus, SP974SBH + SP784SBH) pads.

Also, any one with info on different combination rotor/pads for their rig would be appreciated.
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Old 01-15-2019, 02:47 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by lejeep View Post
Booster, I am just about to order acdelco rotors pn 177861 and 177139 for the rear and front respectively for my 2003 pop 190 exp 3500 70's dana and I hope they are the right ones. Some websites say they fit some don't. Do you think I am ok here ?

I researched a lot about pads and as you mentionned before, Hawk pads (LTS) look like they have the upper hand especially for mountain areas(pulsating prob). However, I was dissapointed not to find much info on pad/rotor combination.

You did mention also that you had good success with Raybestos pads, so I also checked them out.
Here are a couple combinations pad/rotor I am thinking about. Any suggestions/concerns/ideas would be appreciated.

acdelco(oe) rotors / hawk(LTS,hb322y.717 + hb494y.670) pads
I know you like that combo, I just hope they are the right pads.

acdelco(oe) rotors / raybestos(police, SP784PSH + SP974PSH) pads.

acdelco(oe) rotors / raybestos(school bus, SP974SBH + SP784SBH) pads.

Also, any one with info on different combination rotor/pads for their rig would be appreciated.

Rear looks like the right number per Rock Auto, front I think should be 1771039.


You won't find much on compatibility on rotors because there is much, especially in plain rotors. Some manufacturers claim to have the holes/slots in their special rotors matched to their particular pads, but I really don't think they do except to make sure the pads don't shred. On plain rotors you are just talking about normal and high alloy material, and that won't make much difference in stopping, but might have a minor difference in life.


The only time I would worry about pads would be to make sure to use the same pad compound on both front and rear. The rotors aren't going to make any difference that you will notice, from what I have seen.


Raybestos makes decent pads, and I use them on my normal drivers most of the time. I can't specifically say if they would be a good in the van as the Hawk pads as I haven't used them. The reviews on both I have seen for the Hawk pads were very good for hard use, and I have to say that I have seen nothing to dispute that on our van. Both would work fine on the Delco rotors, IMO. The two Raybestos numbers you list show one for police and one for school bus, so they may be different compounds and that I would stay away from that if they are.



For my money, the Hawk pads are the safest bet as there have been quite a few Chevy class Bs done with them, and I have never heard a complaint on any of them that I remember. The part numbers also include the compound code, so you know that you are getting matched front and rear. Those numbers match the spare set I have on the shelf. The Y is the compound code IIRC.
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