Diesel vs. Gasoline.....will the diesel engine outive you?

[Phoebe3]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

...And by all means, if you have a car that is leaving puddles of oil, junk it and buy a new car electric or not. ...

This has become a fun discussion so I'd like to enter the fray and comment that the amount of oil you leave in a puddle in your driveway doesn't match the oil consumed to manufacture a new car.

Removing ore, smelting it, transporting it, creating steel and copper, transporting it again, making car parts, transporting those...

getting oil out of the ground, transporting it, refining it, transporting the refined oil, making plastic parts out of it, transporting them...

the power needed to assemble the parts, the heating, cooling, feeding and transportation energy requirements of the workers even when they aren't actually assembling the vehicle...

transporting the vehicle, maintaining the dealership and those associated energy costs...

These costs are incurred whether the new vehicle uses fossil fuels or battery banks to run.

Don't get me wrong, I have a relatively new van, mostly because I wanted reliability. But I'm not kidding myself about the costs to the planet or future generations who are going to "pay" for my convenience.

[D&J Phillips]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

This has become a fun discussion so I'd like to enter the fray and comment that the amount of oil you leave in a puddle in your driveway doesn't match the oil consumed to manufacture a new car.

Removing ore, smelting it, transporting it, creating steel and copper, transporting it again, making car parts, transporting those...

getting oil out of the ground, transporting it, refining it, transporting the refined oil, making plastic parts out of it, transporting them...

the power needed to assemble the parts, the heating, cooling, feeding and transportation energy requirements of the workers even when they aren't actually assembling the vehicle...

transporting the vehicle, maintaining the dealership and those associated energy costs...

These costs are incurred whether the new vehicle uses fossil fuels or battery banks to run.

Don't get me wrong, I have a relatively new van, mostly because I wanted reliability. But I'm not kidding myself about the costs to the planet or future generations who are going to "pay" for my convenience.

Very well said. The basic, 'behind the scenes' costs enumerated above are often glossed over in these kind of discussions.

[TygerMark]

Does any of this really matter? If so, how?

Warming Up to the Truth: The Real Story About Climate Change

https://www.heritage.org/environment...climate-change

[booster]

Originally Posted by D&J Phillips

Very well said. The basic, 'behind the scenes' costs enumerated above are often glossed over in these kind of discussions.

Yep, me too. But I don't think it changes the discussion, either.



New technologies can very often not be justified when they first appear for many, many, criteria. Be it cost, complexity, reliability, pollution, safety, etc they don't look great on paper for immediate gratification. Until the technology is mature and fully adapted, it is very hard to determine where it will all be in the end, so where it is right now is not worth much.


I don't think any of us could have done a favorable payback/justification for a home PC, cell phone, LED light, etc when they first came out, but very, very few of us would say they aren't a good investment now.


For this reason alone, discussions that get into the minute details of new technologies to prove or disprove their current and/or future value are inherently never going to resolve anything with anywhere near certainty.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

Yep, me too. But I don't think it changes the discussion, either.



New technologies can very often not be justified when they first appear for many, many, criteria. Be it cost, complexity, reliability, pollution, safety, etc they don't look great on paper for immediate gratification. Until the technology is mature and fully adapted, it is very hard to determine where it will all be in the end, so where it is right now is not worth much.


I don't think any of us could have done a favorable payback/justification for a home PC, cell phone, LED light, etc when they first came out, but very, very few of us would say they aren't a good investment now.


For this reason alone, discussions that get into the minute details of new technologies to prove or disprove their current and/or future value are inherently never going to resolve anything with anywhere near certainty.

Remember his quote about new Apple smart phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by Phoebe3

Don't get me wrong, I have a relatively new van, mostly because I wanted reliability. But I'm not kidding myself about the costs to the planet or future generations who are going to "pay" for my convenience.

Which is one of the reasons I do good maintenance on my 2000 (built in Nov 1999) MB G-Class. Amortizing the build cost over 19+ years, and still counting.

[rding]

I think Phoebe3 has a very good point about manufacturing new things to help the environment is counterproductive I've read the best car deal for the environment is a clean used vehicle.

I like what Dutch says too taking it one step further to we have a responsibility to the people around us not to have crappy leaky cars everywhere.

As far as electric cars perpetuating coal I don't think that will change much.The current administration is trying to save coal but it's still going to the way side.They seem ok about the carbon footprint piles of heavy metals and physical destruction to the landscape.It's just not as efficient.

If they can build a electric car for a bout the same money as an equally equipped gas car that has a over 200 mile range they'll sell a lot of them bur before that not to many.

[TygerMark]

Originally Posted by DUTCH in Atlanta

Which is one of the reasons I do good maintenance on my 2000 (built in Nov 1999) MB G-Class. Amortizing the build cost over 19+ years.

Amen.

Same for my 1983 300D, 1985 300D, 1986 1210, and 1990 250D. All diesel.

[oilman]

1.16 a kWh? Are you sure. I believe I pay around .22 in N.Y. which has one of the highest rates in the nation.

[Paul the Gardens]

Originally Posted by oilman

1.16 a kWh? Are you sure. I believe I pay around .22 in N.Y. which has one of the highest rates in the nation.

At the lowest level a kWh in Quebec is $0.08 in Canadian funds or $0.06 US per kWh and yes New York pays much more at 21.0 cents per kWh New York households paid for electricity in May 2018 was 54 percent more than the national average of 13.6 cents per kWh. Last May, electricity prices were 47 percent higher in New York compared to the nation.Jun 13, 2018

Ah Google search.............

[Boxster1971]

DUTCH - is that post from THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS a quote of the story? Do you have a link?

It is wrong in so many ways. I have a Chevy Bolt EV in Maryland my electricity rate is 16 cents per kWh. My running cost is half what it costs to run my other car a Toyota Prius. The Bolt also has the advantage of no routine oil changes or tune ups. Electricity, tires, brake flush every two years and coolant every five years. It is a great city car and since I have a garage it's a perfect setup for me.

[Boxster1971]

Now I see this thread is being edited by moderators. Interesting several posts by DUTCH in Atlanta have been deleted.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Now I see this thread is being edited by moderators. Interesting several posts by DUTCH in Atlanta have been deleted.

Actually, no. Several users have been deleting their own posts, not the moderators.

One post was deleted for blatant political content, but it was not his.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by avanti

Actually, no. Several users have been deleting their own posts, not the moderators.

One post was deleted for blatant political content, but it was not his.

OK - thanks. I never noticed you could delete your own posts. Now I see it is an edit option. That could be useful.