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Old 03-26-2018, 03:36 AM   #1
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Default Don't Shoot the Messenger

.

Oops

Not good

I told you so

https://sites.google.com/view/shoot-the-messenger

See letter of March 22, 2018

.
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Old 03-26-2018, 12:22 PM   #2
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Illuminating!

Sounds like a CSR got two customers confused and Jim couldnít be bothered to have his facts straight.

This just reinforces the perception of the RV industry as a bunch of used car salesmen.


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Old 03-26-2018, 12:54 PM   #3
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It appears to represent a classic culture clash. Those of us who work in health safety and environmental functional areas are trained to document, communicate, and resolve hazards in a very orderly and objective way. For the sake of argument, if I take those emails at face value assuming that the collection has not been cherry-picked for palatability, then the originator is not doing anything that wouldn't be fully expected of him/her in an industrial work setting.

But such a professional environment does tend to seem alien and disturbing to people who are not familiar with it. We live in a highly-dramatized click-bait society where non-statistically-based showboating and pot-banging (literally) is often the method used to gain attention and elevate concerns. Obviously these two approaches are diametrically opposed. People who are familiar with ONLY the showboating method are sometimes scandalized when they encounter a more formal approach, but I wouldn't expect manufacturing executives to be among that cohort.
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Old 03-26-2018, 01:17 PM   #4
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Not at all surprising, based on Hammill's past history of attacking any and everybody that would dare to question or criticize Roadtrek or Hymer.

I do find it a bit interesting as to why the writer did not put up Hammill's last return email that "scared" the writer off. Was this the kind of thing we heard before where there were threats of no warranty or legal action? Not haven't that last email leaves some really loose ends, when also considering how easily the writer agreed to stop contacting Hymer.

My guess is there is something we haven't been let in on.
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Old 03-26-2018, 01:39 PM   #5
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I am concerned about the veracity and/or completeness of that write-up. I'm not a fan of RoadTrek, but when I read "The defect pictures could be sent at the same resolution as Hymer received but this site does not want to cause harm to Hymer," I have to wonder what that's about since the entire post is about the notices sent and responses to a defective Hymer product.

I think we all want to present our own side of the story in the way that casts us in the best light and our opponent in the worst - even when we are trying to be non-biased. Just human nature.

I will also say that the comments on this forum are what convinced me to not buy a new RoadTrek and I'm happy about that every. single. day.
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:27 PM   #6
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For those of us on the Facebook page, we have seen the whole story. The poster involved seems to be a bit of perfectionist, and I suspect that he would find nearly as many issues with most RVs in the market these days. He has been bombarding us with posts - many of them useful - and apparently bombarding EHGNA with emails. JH has a tendency to suggest that the most vocal critics should get mental help... an entirely unprofessional way to deal with what have been some serious issues with his Activ.

He has been told to go through his dealer from now on...
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumkin View Post
For those of us on the Facebook page, we have seen the whole story. The poster involved seems to be a bit of perfectionist, and I suspect that he would find nearly as many issues with most RVs in the market these days. He has been bombarding us with posts - many of them useful - and apparently bombarding EHGNA with emails. JH has a tendency to suggest that the most vocal critics should get mental help... an entirely unprofessional way to deal with what have been some serious issues with his Activ.

He has been told to go through his dealer from now on...

I agree that he should go through his dealer; that is who he had his business relation with.

However we all know how dealers work; they are under pay and overworked. The last thing they want to do is paperwork with no chargeable hours. So this is a no-win proposition.

I do not agree that he is a bit of perfectionist; he's an engineer, some of the problems he found are safety related. Hymer should thank him for finding them.

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Old 03-26-2018, 08:40 PM   #8
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ROFL.

This is hilarious tea-spilling. Sorry to say it, but Roadtrek/Hymer/Jim Hammil are are the types that will only learn thru loosing lawsuits and paying hefty damages. They don't appreciate any feedback other than cheerleading (as noted on Roadtrekking on numerous occasions), so emails such as this are just a waste of keystrokes.

FWIW, I wouldn't have redacted any names, and would have posted screenshots of the documents with all the addresses.
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:37 PM   #9
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Assuming the issues noted by the owner/author are real and significant, might it be prudent to consider escalating your concerns to one of the many government vehicle safety agencies for follow up? Rather than beat a dead horse over it?
In some cases, it might make sense to request some investigation and follow up from the governmental agency responsible, if the problems are that heinous, and the manufacturer's response to the properly documented and presented concerns is either flippant, or presented in a tone that is intimidating or otherwise dismissive. I admit these "conditions" can be highly subjective, and open to argument.
NHTSA/FMVSS and Transport Canada/CMVSS might be interested in vehicle/personal safety issues resulting from the upfitting/modifications made to an otherwise safe vehicle when it left the point of origin factory.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:05 PM   #10
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... might it be prudent to consider escalating your concerns to one of the many government vehicle safety agencies for follow up? Rather than beat a dead horse over it? ....
It would require a specific quantifiable regulatory violation for that approach to bear fruit.

For instance, re: the cabinetry, there would have to be a regulation that says "you must have three screws per X amount of linear cabinetry" and then it would have to be shown that the manufacturer was only putting one or two screws.

A lot of upfitting stuff is done based on perceived good engineering practice rather than specific directives. Therein lies the potential for debate and disagreement.
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