Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-08-2018, 09:37 PM   #1
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default If you have "dual wheels" in the back... does it make you feel safer and more stable?

Haven't seen too many people talking about the single vs. dual wheels in the back other than the increased cargo carrying weight capacity?

How many of you with the dual wheels feel more safe and secure on the road with the larger footprint of two extra tires??

Are you happy that you "chose" the duals over the single wheels?

I know I am very happy with that arrangement despite the fact that I have to purchase two extra tires when they have to be replaced...

I especially like the fact that the two tires seem more planted when turning corners Ö less likely for the rig to roll over..

Even with the increased sway bar... I still think those extra tires have value.

Your thoughts??
__________________

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 09:39 PM   #2
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

.

Why bother with dual wheels when one can do the job?

.
__________________

__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 09:55 PM   #3
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default You only have the single wheels in the back??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Why bother with dual wheels when one can do the job?

.

Well.. weight capacity for one... more rubber on the road seems like a good idea... WHY????

Do you disagree with that ?
Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 10:32 PM   #4
Platinum Member
 
Boxster1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 906
Default

Dual vs. Single rear tires is not an open choice. It is determined by your GVWR and tires. If you GVWR is 11,030 lbs and your rear axle is rated at 7,000 lbs you would not be able to find tires that can support that weight unless in a dual configuration.

I've seen people claim there dual rear wheels make their van more stable. I don't have any data/experience to form an opinion on the matter.
__________________
2013 Airstream Interstate Lounge EXT on 2012 Sprinter 3500 170Ext
Formerly: 1973 Dodge B300 DIY pop-top conversion
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 11:00 PM   #5
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,787
Default

Personal choice, I think. I don't care for how duallie stuff drives because of the 4 tires always trying to go straight ahead. This gives scuffing when turning and normally quite pronounced understeer. Duals also by design have the tire edges out of line between the front and rear, so you can get some very funny feel and wobbling in roads with deep tire path grooves in them because the edges of the tires hit the slopes differently in the rear compared to front.



You can get larger capacity tires and wheels, but not normally on everyday vehicles. Military, expedition, etc rigs are nearly always single wheels due to better traction in poor conditions.


Our 265-75-16 singles on the rear of our Chevy rate at 6830 per axle, but the van is rated lower than that.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2018, 11:11 PM   #6
Platinum Member
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: eastern Iowa
Posts: 216
Default

A dual wheel axle is solely a function of axle/tire weight carrying capacity.

My last B-Van, a '94 Airstream B-190 was on an e350 heavy-one ton chassis with a 460 and an overloaded single-tired rear axle. My current '95 Coachmen is on an e250 heavy 3/4 ton chassis (351W and 9" rear end and 8 lug wheels) and likely still has an overloaded single-tired rear axle and suspension; although not overloaded to the extent the Airstream was. While both likely could have benefitted from a dual-wheel axle, Ford only produced them on the cutaway class-C motorhome chassis (the Chinooks for example not the 19' extended cargo van platform.
hepcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 12:34 AM   #7
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default Sorry.... didn't mean to start a great debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971 View Post
Dual vs. Single rear tires is not an open choice. It is determined by your GVWR and tires. If you GVWR is 11,030 lbs and your rear axle is rated at 7,000 lbs you would not be able to find tires that can support that weight unless in a dual configuration.

I've seen people claim there dual rear wheels make their van more stable. I don't have any data/experience to form an opinion on the matter.
I didn't mean to touch a "nerve" on this issue... rather..I was interested in knowing if your decision to get dual wheels was a conscious choice..

Here's an article on this......


12 & 15-Passenger Vans ‚Äď Still not a viable option :: The Redwoods Group

Operative language....

Because we consider the improvements to be insufficient to alter our historical stance, dual rear wheels, seat belts, increased rollover protection (FMVSS 220), increased body joint strength (FMVSS 221), and passenger space compartmentalization (FMVSS 222) remain necessary for unqualified mini-bus approval

I don't know... maybe you don't agree...for me...it's safer...
If you lose one wheel in a blowout....the other wheel will still be there.....
Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 12:44 AM   #8
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,787
Default

We just got back from a month in the western states.


Particularly in the mountain areas like Denver or other similar area where they run a lot of shuttle vans to attractions, mountain tops, etc, we were very surprised to find that nearly every one of the shuttle vans was a transit single rear wheel van, unless they were the bigger capacity cutaway shuttles which were on duallie F350 cutaways.


Pretty shocking how quickly the Transits took over for pretty much everything else.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 12:52 AM   #9
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Why bother with dual wheels when one can do the job?

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 View Post
Well.. weight capacity for one... more rubber on the road seems like a good idea... WHY????

Do you disagree with that ?

No, I am not disagreeing with you.
I am saying... if one can do the job, why use 2?
If one cannot do the job, of course you have to use two.

Single drives better, rides better, quieter, feels less bumps, have better traction in the winter, gives better fuel economy, easier to maintain, cheaper to replace, cheaper snow tires, less intrusion into the cabin (ie more room for your RV stuff)...

But there is a segment of the population who believe duallie is better than single, even when duallie is not needed.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 12:57 AM   #10
Platinum Member
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: eastern Iowa
Posts: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 View Post
I didn't mean to touch a "nerve" on this issue... rather..I was interested in knowing if your decision to get dual wheels was a conscious choice..
...

I don't know... maybe you don't agree...for me...it's safer...
If you lose one wheel in a blowout....the other wheel will still be there.....
Blowouts are extraordinarily rare. Shredded tires people often mistake for a "blowout" are usually just tires run flat at highway speed, likely as often caused by valve stem failure on passenger vehicles as tire failure.

Duals are no more "safe" than a single tire on an axle, are expensive, and a real pain if it's the inside tire that fails (and it usually is.) If you feel better buying a van with duals, more power to you. It just means you're spending more for a heavier chassis and will likelier have a heavier coach than those on single-tire axles.

I have had duals on both my Born Free coaches, and duals with a tag axle on my '85 Airstream 325 class A. The only tire failures I've experienced in almost twenty years of owning motorhomes were fronts. My preference is for single tires. You can rotate them properly and they're a LOT less expensive to replace.
hepcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 01:20 AM   #11
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,371
Default

I am totally confused by this conversation. The choice isn't 4 wheels vs 6. Rather, the choice is a big, heavy, roomy van with lots of water and batteries, vs a small, light, less-roomy van with limited capacity. If you want the former you get 6 wheels, if you want the latter you get 4. N'est ce pas?
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 01:24 AM   #12
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default Blow Outs.... extremely rare... i hope you're correct.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
Blowouts are extraordinarily rare. Shredded tires people often mistake for a "blowout" are usually just tires run flat at highway speed, likely as often caused by valve stem failure on passenger vehicles as tire failure.

Duals are no more "safe" than a single tire on an axle, are expensive, and a real pain if it's the inside tire that fails (and it usually is.) If you feel better buying a van with duals, more power to you. It just means you're spending more for a heavier chassis and will likelier have a heavier coach than those on single-tire axles.

I have had duals on both my Born Free coaches, and duals with a tag axle on my '85 Airstream 325 class A. The only tire failures I've experienced in almost twenty years of owning motorhomes were fronts. My preference is for single tires. You can rotate them properly and they're a LOT less expensive to replace.
A friend of mine with a RT 210 experienced a blow out... nearly lost control of the vehicle and ALMOST rolled it. He was very lucky he didn't.

He had four tires, not 6... he told me .. Look, you're coach is almost 10 feet tall, much taller than the 210 model he had, and the RT 200 has a wider stance than the RS Adventurous.

He convinced me to get rid of all of my tires every 6 or 7 years.. it's cheap insurance compared to rolling the coach... having an accident or worse.

I also highly recommend a tire pressure monitoring system... you can see exactly which tire is low, it alerts you about a sudden loss of tire pressure and they are pretty cheap.. I use Truck System Technologies. Cost was about $300 .. wireless sensors to each wheel transmit data back to a wireless monitor on your dashboard... easy.

Do you really want to run that big of a risk???
Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 01:28 AM   #13
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default All about choices ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
I am totally confused by this conversation. The choice isn't 4 wheels vs 6. Rather, the choice is a big, heavy, roomy van with lots of water and batteries, vs a small, light, less-roomy van with limited capacity. If you want the former you get 6 wheels, if you want the latter you get 4. N'est ce pas?
Choices.... my van is 23 feet long, almost 10 feet high and 80 inches wide..
Yes, I'm very glad to have the dual wheels.

Again, this conversation was about asking WHY you chose dual wheels...
Was it for safety, weight capacity, etc??

It was never meant to start a GREAT debate among 4 vs. 6..

Again, original question;

How many of you with the dual wheels feel more safe and secure on the road with the larger footprint of two extra tires??


Peace.
Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 01:40 AM   #14
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,787
Default

If the friend with the 210 had a rear blowout, which seems to be indicated, it is also very likely he could have been overloaded in the rear on tire capacity. 210s have very low cargo capacity, and operating window, especially in the rear. Add to that some poor tire pressure maintenance and tires that get very hot (partly from the rear axle and offset wheels), and the odds of a rear tire failure go up quickly.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 01:57 AM   #15
Platinum Member
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: eastern Iowa
Posts: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
I am totally confused by this conversation. The choice isn't 4 wheels vs 6. Rather, the choice is a big, heavy, roomy van with lots of water and batteries, vs a small, light, less-roomy van with limited capacity. If you want the former you get 6 wheels, if you want the latter you get 4. N'est ce pas?
Oui, exactement.

I have a 32' long, 8'6" wide big, heavy, roomy van with LOTS of water and two type 31 batteries, a 7.5kw genset, vacuum, two roof AC units, a full-sized queen with a sleep number mattress, and a porcelain commode that I tow a Jeep Rubicon 4dr with when I travel.

I also have a 19' B-van with limited capacity that I can park anywhere, use as a cargo-hauler when necessary, and take off, as I did this weekend, to go and tow a new sailboat home.

Very different coaches equipped and used for very different purposes.
hepcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 02:38 AM   #16
Platinum Member
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: eastern Iowa
Posts: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 View Post
A friend of mine with a RT 210 experienced a blow out... nearly lost control of the vehicle and ALMOST rolled it. He was very lucky he didn't.

He had four tires, not 6... he told me .. Look, you're coach is almost 10 feet tall, much taller than the 210 model he had, and the RT 200 has a wider stance than the RS Adventurous.

He convinced me to get rid of all of my tires every 6 or 7 years.. it's cheap insurance compared to rolling the coach... having an accident or worse.

I also highly recommend a tire pressure monitoring system... you can see exactly which tire is low, it alerts you about a sudden loss of tire pressure and they are pretty cheap.. I use Truck System Technologies. Cost was about $300 .. wireless sensors to each wheel transmit data back to a wireless monitor on your dashboard... easy.

Do you really want to run that big of a risk???
Yes, the tires on ANY RV should be replaced about every six years regardless of mileage. And a TPMS is fine if you have $300 to spend. Monitoring your tire pressure with a gauge and inspecting your tires regularly is just as effective though, and a lot less expensive.

Obviously your friend knows what happened, but when I get a first hand account of a "blowout" it's always interesting to ask exactly what the driver felt, heard and saw. That said, there ARE blowouts... I had a truck and trailer hauling a backhoe pass me on a four-lane highway and just as the tandem duals pulled along side my driver's door, one of the outside tires blew. It sounded like a shotgun going off outside my door, and it blew shrapnel all over my FJ Cruiser.

That said, a tire that loses pressure because of a bead failure or a stem failure will look like a "blowout" when the incident is over, and once it's flat the handling will be the same... but that doesn't mean the tire had a catastrophic sidewall failure. "Blowouts" are less common among radial-ply tires than bias ply tires, and there are still MILLIONS of defective Chinese valve stems out there being installed on perfectly sound rims and tires.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...nded/index.htm
hepcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 02:47 AM   #17
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,136
Default

My first rig was a standard Class B... handled horribly as so many Fords did. A passing 18 wheeler about threw you off the highway. It was white knuckles most of the time... and forget going over 60-65.

Next I went to a Chevy based Class C... with duallies. It handled like a dream. It was solid and steady... never even noticed a passing truck. Little effect of wind... and was perfectly comfortable up to 70-75. So... was it the Chevy? or the duallies?

My Chevy 170 drives like a van, but doesn't handle high cross winds as well as the rig with duallies.

I make no claim of technical knowledge... just my experience.
__________________
Mumkin
2019 Roadtrek Simplicity SRT (almost a Zion)
2015 Roadtrek 170
2011 LTV Libero
2004 GWV Classic Supreme
mumkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 03:01 AM   #18
Platinum Member
 
hepcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: eastern Iowa
Posts: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumkin View Post
My first rig was a standard Class B... handled horribly as so many Fords did. A passing 18 wheeler about threw you off the highway. It was white knuckles most of the time... and forget going over 60-65.

Next I went to a Chevy based Class C... with duallies. It handled like a dream. It was solid and steady... never even noticed a passing truck. Little effect of wind... and was perfectly comfortable up to 70-75. So... was it the Chevy? or the duallies?

My Chevy 170 drives like a van, but doesn't handle high cross winds as well as the rig with duallies.

I make no claim of technical knowledge... just my experience.
My Born Free 32' on the Kodiak chassis handled really badly until I had Roadmaster install anti-sway bars installed along with a Davis tru-trac bar. It handles respectably now. My Airstream B-van had terrible body roll. I installed Helwig anti-sway bars on the Coachmen B-van because of similar body-roll. It also handles much better than it did pre-anti-sway bars.

None of that had anything to with single or duals on the axles. Bad handling in a motorhome has to do with body roll and weak rear suspension causing rear-axle steering. Inadequate tire pressure can also cause white knuckle handling, and a combination of inadequate tire pressure and sloppy suspension can be down right terrifying.
hepcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 03:58 AM   #19
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,371
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
And a TPMS is fine if you have $300 to spend. Monitoring your tire pressure with a gauge and inspecting your tires regularly is just as effective though, and a lot less expensive.
A TPMS is "nice to have" if you have two rear wheels. But IMO it is an absolute necessity with duallies. It is way too easy to get a flat in a rear wheel and not notice it until it (and possibly its mate) is shredded.
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2018, 07:07 AM   #20
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: CA
Posts: 1,160
Default Tires.... handling and replacing items for additional control...see below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hepcat View Post
Yes, the tires on ANY RV should be replaced about every six years regardless of mileage. And a TPMS is fine if you have $300 to spend. Monitoring your tire pressure with a gauge and inspecting your tires regularly is just as effective though, and a lot less expensive.

Obviously your friend knows what happened, but when I get a first hand account of a "blowout" it's always interesting to ask exactly what the driver felt, heard and saw. That said, there ARE blowouts... I had a truck and trailer hauling a backhoe pass me on a four-lane highway and just as the tandem duals pulled along side my driver's door, one of the outside tires blew. It sounded like a shotgun going off outside my door, and it blew shrapnel all over my FJ Cruiser.

That said, a tire that loses pressure because of a bead failure or a stem failure will look like a "blowout" when the incident is over, and once it's flat the handling will be the same... but that doesn't mean the tire had a catastrophic sidewall failure. "Blowouts" are less common among radial-ply tires than bias ply tires, and there are still MILLIONS of defective Chinese valve stems out there being installed on perfectly sound rims and tires.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...nded/index.htm
This was my first RV purchase in May 2017... before that I had a teardrop trailer.....
Here's a link to exactly what I got....

https://www.conejowholesaleauto.com/...beffb59e9eb708

It's a VERY NICE vehicle and when I purchased it I didn't realize that the tires were such a big issue...... until my friend who had a Roadtrek 190 and then a Roadtrek 210 advised me about the tires and their age...

I am pretty certain he had the blowout on the rear... maybe it was the front.. in any case..it was a teaching moment.....I didn't want to have a problem and his advice made sense...I replaced the tires just before an 11,000 miles USA trip... Remember, the tires looked like they were new when I purchased the RV.. look at the photos and you'll see what I mean...

Now.. I've had blowouts in cars many years ago... I know what it's like to have it occur....and it was a very long time ago.... BUT... that was a car.. pretty low to the ground...this is different...9 feet 7 inches tall..23 feet long and 80 inches wide........ AND.. my friend doesn't have the tire pressure monitoring system..he just checks the pressure with a gauge...

You're absolutely correct...you can't check the inside tire pressure on the two inside rear tires.....

Fortunately... I have the valve extensions...and those were initially defective...they were replaced..... now it's fine...and I ALWAYS know what the pressure is when I'm driving.....

Is this important to me????

YES... very important...it's one less thing for me to think about ... until I see it's a problem and a visual indicator is fantastic.....the best $300 I spent...
I highly recommend it..

I know you can't control everything....hell, on the last leg of the trip home last year..I had two CEL incidents...

I just don't want to lose control of the vehicle and roll over or have an accident... and if I ever want my wife to drive it...I need to make her comfortable as well....

What I learned from this whole discussion is the "offset tires"on the Roadtrek 210 Chevy Express....I didn't know anything about this.... very interesting ...

The whole reason I specifically chose the "dual wheels" set up was I never wanted to be faced with a weight issue on my Sprinter.... apparently this is a real thing .....I know someone on the forum who has a 2008 RS Adventurous and his set up is on the Sprinter 2500 chassis..... apparently..he has had some weight challenges.... unfortunate....

As far as stability issues.... when I got home from the USA trip ...I needed to take my rig to the RV shop that does some work for me... they noticed that my shocks were worn out and recommended that I get a suspension upgrade.....

I now have KONI FSD shocks, larger anti-sway bar...and a Trac Bar....made a significant difference... handling is way improved....drives like a totally different vehicle..
I did have some cross winds issues.....no more.... tracks straight.... I had a recent trip and really noticed the difference.....

This will probably be my first and only RV....and the first year was a total learning curve for me..... I made a number of significant improvements and upgrades..the RS is exactly where I want it.....

I expect to drive it for another 10-12 years to get my value for the van.....with proper maintenance it should easily last that long....

I'm not one for taking unnecessary risks...so, I'm meticulous about keeping up with the maintenance to stay safe and on the road.... barring any unforeseen circumstances...I will have many great experiences with the RS....

One thing that caught my attention was ...one of you said... that the dual wheels don't ride as "SMOOTHLY" as the rear single wheels???

My 170 inch wheelbase has a pretty smooth ride.....

It's definitely a big and heavy vehicle...and the ride in the back bench seat is a little less smooth than the front seats or even the second row of seats...

In our rig...we have the option for removing the second row seats and placing the cabinets behind the driver and passenger up front...on long USA trips we need that organization space.... there's just the two of us anyway......the ride up front is pretty good....

Yes.. my friend with the 210 doesn't want to go as far as I have to control some of these things.... another person I know says.... what difference does it make if the cabinets shake around like an earthquake.when he goes into fueling stations..or enters driveways.....

I don't want to be that person... which is WHY I spent the money to handle these circumstances... I figured... I'm only going to do this ONCE and it might as well be right on MY TERMS....

All about making me feel more comfortable....now I can just drive and enjoy it with regular maintenance... I don't like cars or any vehicles with compromised systems....

Good luck...

I hope you do as well feel confident about your ride....
__________________

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×