In-Depth RV Lithium Install & Wiring Film - Mike Mas

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I appreciate your honesty; it is difficult to answer questions while being confused. It could help you to digest the difference between power and energy, different units, different physical quantities.

We may just as well admit it. Idleup will never be giving any useful information to his topics, only bluster. Claims to be only posting to help others is pure fallacy, as he gives little/no information that would help anyone, and lots that is very questionable to many of us.


Who knows why no data or test results are given, but it could pure lack of knowledge, knowing that the claims are not accurate, sponsors might not like it, or that the goal is only adulation and is not willing to do the hard part of it all. It doesn't really matter why there nothing given, just that it isn't given. All it really accomplishes is to waste hundreds of posts and everyone else's time, IMO.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

We may just as well admit it. Idleup will never be giving any useful information to his topics, only bluster. Claims to be only posting to help others is pure fallacy, as he gives little/no information that would help anyone, and lots that is very questionable to many of us.


Who knows why no data or test results are given, but it could pure lack of knowledge, knowing that the claims are not accurate, sponsors might not like it, or that the goal is only adulation and is not willing to do the hard part of it all. It doesn't really matter why there nothing given, just that it isn't given. All it really accomplishes is to waste hundreds of posts and everyone else's time, IMO.

You could have condensed all this with the aphorism: Big hat, no cattle.

[SteveJ]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

LOL OK now I'm really confused when you associate bank statements with an RV!,

If you're talking about my systems power usage verses capacity. As I mentioned, unlike other lithium coaches, mine is self sufficient, therefore my lithium system stays 70-90% ahead of its loads thanks to the fact my coach is unique in its use of propane devices such as the 3 Way refrigerator, propane stove and more importantly propane cabin and water heat.

As i mentioned, I just went on a trip to Florida and lived in the coach 24/7 for 6 days and never plugged the coach in or ran the generator. This is what makes my system so advanced from current available lithium RVs which depend on electrical devices requiring a 2nd alternator and running your vans engine.

Where those RV's need to replenish their battery on a constant even daily basis to prevent the battery from depleting, my system only draws 1/2 amp to enable weeks and weeks of camping without running the engine, generator or plugging in.

Regards - Mike

While you call this system and your apparent usage on this trip "advanced", I would call it extreme overkill and a huge waste of money.

I can go for an easy three nights on my $100 Walmart battery using 15-25 amp hours per day, assuming I don't need much in the way of heat or cool down ventilation. When parking for more than two nights, I deploy a portable solar panel set up consisting of one 50 watt and one fold up 100 watt unit. I have less than $500 in the solar set up. If I want to use the microwave( maybe once or twice per day, not always), or start the A/C(not very often), the genny comes into play. My appliances are LP, also.

My system accomplishes the same results as your system, extended boon docking, for a whole lot less money, with similar usage pattern.

I'm having a difficult time swallowing the "advanced" idea when for less than 5% of the money invested, I get the same end result, the ability to boondock for extended periods. And I don't have to worry about finding the power to run an electric space heater for a storage compartment that, IMHO, should really have a duct from the furnace, or if it applies, a liquid heat exchanger providing the heat, not just banging hundreds of watts at a heat strip.

Now, if the real reason is just to have really trick and trendy techie stuff then that's a whole other story and can be worth it to some folks.

In Davydd's case, he wants a seamless electrical experience and is willing to put forth the time and treasure to very successfully accomplish that. The system he has reportedly does an excellent job of meeting his needs and wants.

[IdleUp]

Thanks for the reply’s - It’s my guess the reason some users are confused when evaluating my lithium system is because it operates in a different manner then current lithium system.

Keep in mind, the main objective of any lithium system is to obtain maximum “off the grid” time to avoid running the engine, plugging in or using a generator.

When I evaluated my initial design data, I came to the conclusion that current lithium upgrades that were offered, were going totally in the wrong direction. Instead of taking advantage of propane devices which can double or triple off the grid time, they instead in error move more towards electric refrigerators and cook tops, and heat which deplete the battery requiring parked high idle charging.

In retrospect, my system has none of these disadvantages, I don’t have the constant draw of a refrigerator, or inverter, nor use any current for cooking. In an emergency, I can even heat my coach with the stove using no current. These are major factors when a owner is parked in remote locations where there is no power.

In addition, on my system the solar panels actually keep my batteries topped off, where on conventional systems they fail to provide enough power to cover daily draw. This means this coach would be self sufficient power-wise for months if needed.

Thanks - Mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

PS: It's also important to note the "High Idle feature" has nothing to do with the alternator or its restrictions! Even Freightliner offers a high idle feature they are more designed for engine warm-up.

Yeah. And the variable high idle is more designed to let people choose how fast to warm up their engines.


This is getting too easy...

Sprinter 906 M53 High Idle - Preset
This electronic RPM governor maintains a constant RPM, e.g. for auxiliary drive operation.
Under load change, RPM may fluctuate by approx. +/- 50 RPM (depending on engine, load and RPM).
The standard factory setting is 1500 RPM. Higher or lower RPM can be programmed using the Star Diagnosis system.
Benefits & Arguments
•Constant rpm
Necessary if a virtually constant rpm must be maintained in order to operate an auxiliary unit such as a pump.
Remarks
NOT suitable for operating 220V generators!
Recommended for:
- Ambulances
- Shuttle services
- Applications with longer idle times

Sprinter 906 MT4. High Idle – Driver Adjustable

This electronic RPM governor maintains a constant RPM, e.g. for auxiliary drive operation.
Under load change, RPM may fluctuate by approx. +/- 50 RPM (depending on engine, load and RPM).
The high idle factory setting is 950 RPM. The factory setting can be adjusted by the dealer using the Star Diagnostic System to a different value.
The RPM setting can be driver adjusted in 50 RPM increments up or down by using the rocker switch.
Benefits & Arguments
•Constant engine speed, variable settings
Necessary if a virtually constant rpm must be maintained in order to operate an auxiliary unit such as a loading crane.
Remarks
Not suitable for operating 220V generators!
If necessary, can also be programmed to allow the cruise control stalk to be used for changing the RPM setting.
Recommended for:
- Ambulances
- Shuttle services
- Applications with longer idle times

I'd like to tell you where the above came from, but I am not allowed to discuss it.

Oh, very well:

Special Equipment Handbook Model Year 2014


Can you say "100% accurate"?

[booster]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

Thanks for the reply’s - It’s my guess the reason some users are confused when evaluating my lithium system is because it operates in a different manner then current lithium system.

Keep in mind, the main objective of any lithium system is to obtain maximum “off the grid” time to avoid running the engine, plugging in or using a generator.

When I evaluated my initial design data, I came to the conclusion that current lithium upgrades that were offered, were going totally in the wrong direction. Instead of taking advantage of propane devices which can double or triple off the grid time, they instead in error move more towards electric refrigerators and cook tops, and heat which deplete the battery requiring parked high idle charging.

In retrospect, my system has none of these disadvantages, I don’t have the constant draw of a refrigerator, or inverter, nor use any current for cooking. In an emergency, I can even heat my coach with the stove using no current. These are major factors when a user is parked in remote locations where there is no power.

In addition, on my system the solar panels actually keep my batteries topped off, where on conventional systems they fail to provide enough power to cover daily draw. This means this coach would be self sufficient power-wise for months if needed.

Thanks - Mike

Yep, you have told us that over and over and we believe you. But how can anyone know if you really need to run the engine or generator unless we know how much power you use and where you get it. The system doesn't make sense from that veiwpoint.



Without generator or engine, you only have 400 watts of solar, so just can't use more than that if your claims are correct. And why the increase to 125 amps on the engine charging.


Until we know this stuff, it looks like an overpriced, undersized, over claimed, poorly thought out system.


The blather is truly all blather as you have told us zero about anything that matters, no matter how many times asked.

[gregmchugh]

If I ever want to remind myself why I don’t participate here much anymore, all I have to do is review this discussion. I don’t miss these train wrecks at all...

[Bud]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

If I ever want to remind myself why I don’t participate here much anymore, all I have to do is review this discussion. I don’t miss these train wrecks at all...

Hey gregmchugh, I missed your input. Where else can you find this kind of entertainment:

"I came to the conclusion that current lithium upgrades that were offered, were going totally in the wrong direction." That and many more entertaining quotes.

I kind of like this expression: "You can't make this sh*t up." Well, maybe someone like John Grisham.

I don't know Mike from another forum, but I'll bet the entertainment is not just here, might lose the bet thought.

Bud

[booster]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

If I ever want to remind myself why I don’t participate here much anymore, all I have to do is review this discussion. I don’t miss these train wrecks at all...

Can't say I blame you on that. The site seems to be attracting bad behavior lately.

[timp410]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

If I ever want to remind myself why I don’t participate here much anymore, all I have to do is review this discussion. I don’t miss these train wrecks at all...

I couldn't agree more!

[IdleUp]

I’m sorry a few are still having problems understanding the operation of my lithium system. While it's all mentioned in the film, the best way I can explain is my lithium system is comprised of three three basic groups;

1) The Power System - comprised of the lithium battery, Smart BMS control module and the Xantrex inverter charger.

2) Five Charging Systems - The Freedom 3012, Transit engine alternator, Solar Panels, Onan Generator, XC Aux charger.

3) The Appliance Group - 3 Way propane refrigerator, propane stove, propane water heater, propane cabin heater.

It’s the combination and use of these three groups which makes the lithium system unique. Most important, it's the third group which is the appliances that separates my system from others, since the propane appliances preserves the battery for more important use providing considerably more “off the grid time” for extended stays. I hope this better explains the system.

Thanks - Mike

[markopolo]

I think that is as best of an answer that Mike is able to give.


No point in asking any more questions.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I think that is as best of an answer that Mike is able to give.


No point in asking any more questions.

Agree, 10 pages is enough.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Agree, 10 pages is enough.

Yep, it isn't going to get any better than that non-answer, so that is as good as it gets.

[IdleUp]

There seems to be some confusion on the real reason high idle options are offered on diesel vans and trucks. Since I worked for Cummins, I would like to add my 2 cents!

While this might come at a big surprise - the high idle feature found on diesel engines such as Mercedes, Cummins, Detroit and others, have absolutely nothing to do with charging lithium batteries.

While certain applications may use an high idle for varies applications, the primary “use” of a high idle is because diesel engines fail to reach proper operating temperatures at idle during cold weather. Therefore, the high idle feature, brings engine to the proper speed to raise the engine temperature and maintain proper oil pressure during cold weather warm-up.

The primary “reason” for the high idle feature, is because slow speed idling in cold weather, causes “Wet Stacking”. This occurs when the engine is running during low operating temperatures. Since the temperature of the cylinder and combustion chamber is to low during this idling, it fails to atomize the fuel injected into the cylinder. This raw unburned fuel then washes the small amount of oil from the cylinder walls causing excess wear. Extended cold idling of a diesel engine can actually dilute the engine oil causing other problems.

Thanks - Mike

[IdleUp]

For those who are planning a lithium installation using Lithionics Deluxe BMS, you’ll be happy to know their BMS is comparable and talks to any RV-C protocol display system. I provided some information below regarding the handshake.

Enjoy - Mike

[booster]

Originally Posted by IdleUp

There seems to be some confusion on the real reason high idle options are offered on diesel vans and trucks. Since I worked for Cummins, I would like to add my 2 cents!

While this might come at a big surprise - the high idle feature found on diesel engines such as Mercedes, Cummins, Detroit and others, have absolutely nothing to do with charging lithium batteries.

While certain applications may use an high idle for varies applications, the primary “use” of a high idle is because diesel engines fail to reach proper operating temperatures at idle during cold weather. Therefore, the high idle feature, brings engine to the proper speed to raise the engine temperature and maintain proper oil pressure during cold weather warm-up.

The primary “reason” for the high idle feature, is because slow speed idling in cold weather, causes “Wet Stacking”. This occurs when the engine is running during low operating temperatures. Since the temperature of the cylinder and combustion chamber is to low during this idling, it fails to atomize the fuel injected into the cylinder. This raw unburned fuel then washes the small amount of oil from the cylinder walls causing excess wear. Extended cold idling of a diesel engine can actually dilute the engine oil causing other problems.

Thanks - Mike

I think you are underestimating the public knowledge with a comment like this.


Almost everyone here is old enough to know they left diesels idling all the time to keep them from not restarting in the cold, and that high idle is needed to keep them at operating temps in many cases. This predates lithium battery charging by decades.


The alternator and battery folks have just jumped on to an existing feature to solve a new problem.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I think you are underestimating the public knowledge with a comment like this.


Almost everyone here is old enough to know they left diesels idling all the time to keep them from not restarting in the cold, and that high idle is needed to keep them at operating temps in many cases. This predates lithium battery charging by decades.


The alternator and battery folks have just jumped on to an existing feature to solve a new problem.

Well, not exactly. At least in the case of Mercedes, high idle has nothing whatsoever to do with engine temperature (This is just another piece of misinformation that has been "triple checked"). For this purpose, Sprinters are equipped either with Espar-based diesel-fueled coolant heaters, or electric air heaters in the heating system (both are available). As I documented above, all the Mercedes documentation presents the various high-idle options as being intended for power take-off applications, such as hydraulic pumps and so on, which require constant speed operation. If this weren't true, the "variable idle" option would make no sense. Second-engine alternators are simply a species of power take-off.

Short periods of low-temperature idle are not harmful, and long periods require periodic DPF regeneration, which cannot be done using high idle.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, not exactly. At least in the case of Mercedes, high idle has nothing whatsoever to do with engine temperature (This is just another piece of misinformation that has been "triple checked"). For this purpose, Sprinters are equipped either with Espar-based diesel-fueled coolant heaters, or electric air heaters in the heating system (both are available). As I documented above, all the Mercedes documentation presents the various high-idle options as being intended for power take-off applications, such as hydraulic pumps and so on, which require constant speed operation. If this weren't true, the "variable idle" option would make no sense. Second-engine alternators are simply a species of power take-off.

Short periods of low-temperature idle are not harmful, and long periods require periodic DPF regeneration, which cannot be done using high idle.

I am not up on modern MB engines, but was replying to the generic diesel statement. Do they run the Espar as the engine is idling to hold temp?


Anyway, the issue as I understand it with the older non emission diesels has always been that the low temp would cause fuel drop out and oil dilution in cold weather. Of course it would also mean the driver trying to not freeze to death overnight wouldn't like it .


I think pretty much all adults over 30 in Minnesota have asked someone "why the #$*% do they leave those smelly diesels running all night, and at high speed besides" sometime in their lives.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

I am not up on modern MB engines, but was replying to the generic diesel statement. Do they run the Espar as the engine is idling to hold temp?

Some do--there are many options with different capabilities.