Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-19-2017, 10:31 AM   #1
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Key West, FL
Posts: 89
Default Lithium/Alternator/Inverter Package from Xantrex

Xantrex has developed a Lithium/Alternator/Inverter Package that is now available on the 2018 Coachmen Galleria Li3. Package includes a 600 AH Battery, 250 AMP Alternator and a 3000 watt Pure Sine Wave Inverter. I'll be attending the Tampa Show January 17-21 and gather info/specs/pricing. My first question will be if there are plans to make the Package available for Authorized installation in existing Coaches. IMO, this is a Game-Changer 😀
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_6940.JPG (82.6 KB, 51 views)
angelmroman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 01:28 PM   #2
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Decatur, AL
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelmroman View Post
I'll be attending the Tampa Show January 17-21 and gather info/specs/pricing.
I have seen the Galleria order form and this is a $21,000 option.
35603 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 01:34 PM   #3
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

.

Just my 2 cents,
I would not hold my breath waiting.

I doubt CM will make it a retrofit option.

You might be able to get a similar package from an upfitter shop,
but not from the CM.

The reason is simple -- why bother?
What is in it for them?
It is a lot of work to tear up the interior to install the new system.

I cannot see it as a worthwhile proposition for a factory operation that has a production routine and a demanding schedule.

CM is in the business of making new coaches,
not tearing up old ones.
There is a lot of risks to assume when dealing with an used RV.

A custom upfitter shop or Li/Solar shop would welcome such a retrofit project.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 01:59 PM   #4
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11,917
Default

Does anyone have any information on how they handle the cold? They say usable to -4*F, but we all know that would be discharge only with charging to 32*. Are there heaters and how are they run if they are there? Can the batteries be easily removed for cold storage, or do you need a lithium condo like ARV, as -4 is not even cold around here and it is the now often stated cold storage damage point? Cold and hot seem to be the biggest weaknesses of lithium for those of us in the north, after cost of course.
booster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 05:03 PM   #5
Platinum Member
 
nebulight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 130
Default

Even at 21k, it's close to what roadtrek charges and the quality parts will be night and day better. While 21k sounds expensive, the sum of the parts are approaching 21k. Xantrex makes rock solid parts as does lithionics. It's really nice to see high quality parts for a setup like these compared to roadtrek's in house BMS that's power hungry and cheap re-branded AIMS inverters.

Can you design a similar system yourself a lot cheaper? Hell yes. In fact, you could probably design the exact same system using the same parts:

600AH lithionic battery: $9500
Nation's Second Alternator with regulator: $2200
Xantrex Freedom SW 3000 with remote/combox/monitor: $2500

Not sure if solar is included in their 21k price tag or not.

But people in the market for a 6 figure class b probably don't want to mess with installing a system like this on their own.
nebulight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 05:06 PM   #6
Platinum Member
 
nebulight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
Does anyone have any information on how they handle the cold? They say usable to -4*F, but we all know that would be discharge only with charging to 32*. Are there heaters and how are they run if they are there? Can the batteries be easily removed for cold storage, or do you need a lithium condo like ARV, as -4 is not even cold around here and it is the now often stated cold storage damage point? Cold and hot seem to be the biggest weaknesses of lithium for those of us in the north, after cost of course.
My guess is they can't handle the cold as they've listed their operating temps. However I doubt the van would be subject to that cold of temps while you are operating the van as I believe the battery is installed inside the van to keep it out of the cold. So if you heat up the van to provide yourself with warmth the battery should be warmed up as well.

As for cold storage and removing the battery, that shouldn't be needed as the BMS will disconnect charging loads at freezing and I assume all other loads at -4. The battery weighs 150lbs so I don't think it's meant to be moved that often.
nebulight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 05:10 PM   #7
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11,917
Default

The latest information, via ARV and others, is that the lithium batteries can't stand to be STORED, even disconnected, at below -4*F without damage, which can be a very big deal in the north.

Here is a link to the Lithionics site about storage requirements

http://lithionicsbattery.com/wp-cont...cations-R0.pdf
booster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 05:11 PM   #8
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

.

Right now, for the Transit, the house batteries are under the chassis, on the outside, below the driver's and passenger's seats.

Not sure where would they put them inside the coach.
__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 05:34 PM   #9
Platinum Member
 
nebulight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
The latest information, via ARV and others, is that the lithium batteries can't stand to be STORED, even disconnected, at below -4*F without damage, which can be a very big deal in the north.

Here is a link to the Lithionics site about storage requirements

http://lithionicsbattery.com/wp-cont...cations-R0.pdf
Interesting. I guess I never looked into it much as I don't get down that cold around here. I've always read with no load or charge you should be fine, but that may be incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Right now, for the Transit, the house batteries are under the chassis, on the outside, below the driver's and passenger's seats.

Not sure where would they put them inside the coach.
My guess would be under the bed, under either seat in the back, inside one of the cabinets, there are a lot of options on where this can go. It's a big battery for sure, but it's a VERY long van.

nebulight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 07:47 PM   #10
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,964
Default

At -4 degrees F the LiFePO batteries can be damaged if they are allowed to reach that temperature or below. Advanced RV installs 12V electric heating pads sandwiched between batteries designed to keep them above 41F at all times so they can accept a charge at all times. The pads draw 10 amps or 240 amps in a 24 hour period. I haven't experienced them to come on until the temperature drops to about 20F ambient and it can still be intermittent. At -20F ambient to heating pads couldn't maintain the batteries 42F. For those anticipated conditions ARV now installs more heat. So as long as you maintain a charge the batteries themselves will supply the heat but the obvious solution in storage is to provide shore power to keep the batteries charged. While underway and traveling the second alternator provides charging and restores 240 amps in about an hour of driving. I have gone a week on the road where the temperature was constantly below freezing 24/7 and got down to a -5F.
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 08:12 PM   #11
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for someone in the cold.

__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 08:22 PM   #12
Platinum Member
 
nebulight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for someone in the cold.

Sorta, yea. I have lithium in a DIY camper van and I've wired up a relay to disconnect my charging sources when it hits 35 F (made a post about it here: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...ries-7202.html ). I have a secondary relay on my thermostat where I can wire up 12v heating pads. I have 400ah in 4 groups so I'm think I could buy 4 25W heating pads and have them turn on at 0 F. Where I live I think they would never turn on, but for around $20 from amazon, it sounds like it's worth it to prevent damage.
nebulight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 08:53 PM   #13
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for someone in the cold.

My explanation? Actually it is hassle free hands off.
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 08:56 PM   #14
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

Sounds like a lot of hassle for someone in the cold.

The more I learn about the realities of Li batteries, the more glad I am that I decided not to go that route.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 10:12 PM   #15
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11,917
Default

As the infamous Donald Rumsfeld said, "we don't know what we don't know", which I think applies to all kinds of new stuff, including the lithium batteries in RVs. Will they make their predicted life? Will cold or hot kill some off? Whatever else might come up?

I just happened across this a few minutes ago,

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...431728875.html

7 years old, 43K miles, Minnesota cold weather. Lithium pack down to 65%. Typical, who knows, but I hope not.
booster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2017, 11:38 PM   #16
Platinum Member
 
Boxster1971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,183
Default Lithium/Alternator/Inverter Package from Xantrex

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
As the infamous Donald Rumsfeld said, "we don't know what we don't know", which I think applies to all kinds of new stuff, including the lithium batteries in RVs. Will they make their predicted life? Will cold or hot kill some off? Whatever else might come up?

I just happened across this a few minutes ago,

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...431728875.html

7 years old, 43K miles, Minnesota cold weather. Lithium pack down to 65%. Typical, who knows, but I hope not.

Ya - I'm convinced EVs just won't work well in cold climates like Minnesota. Hybrids are the only workable solution.

I could live with current RV LiFePO battery cold climate limitations here in the moderate weather of Maryland. But then I've been know to drive my van to Minnesota in February. It was -17F overnight the last time I did it. I'd just have to plug in the battery heaters like I did for my Wolverine pad heater on engine.

Does anyone know if the Volta battery pack that Advanced RV is testing will be more tolerant of the cold. I understand it uses a more advanced Li chemistry.

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream
__________________
2024 Airstream Interstate 19
Boxster1971 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 01:10 AM   #17
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster View Post
As the infamous Donald Rumsfeld said, "we don't know what we don't know", which I think applies to all kinds of new stuff, including the lithium batteries in RVs. Will they make their predicted life? Will cold or hot kill some off? Whatever else might come up?

I just happened across this a few minutes ago,

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...431728875.html

7 years old, 43K miles, Minnesota cold weather. Lithium pack down to 65%. Typical, who knows, but I hope not.
The Leaf syndrome has less to do with cold weather impact and more to do with the fact that it employed no thermal management at all.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 01:29 AM   #18
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by angelmroman View Post
My first question will be if there are plans to make the Package available for Authorized installation in existing Coaches.
IMO, the answer is: no. The question worth asking is whether they plan to expand the lithium option to the Crosstrek.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 02:42 AM   #19
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,964
Default

Since I got the first build of Advanced RV's Lithium Ion 800ah battery design exactly 3 years ago, I can tell you it has performed well with no noticeable drop off after 58,000 miles of RVing. I've enjoyed what no one else has contributing on this thread has for the past three years, not the future. And it has been in extreme Minnesota cold weather.

Has anyone else traveled a whole week in weather mostly under 20F 24/7 and camped in overnight temperatures of mostly 0 to 5 degrees F. without shore power? Did so three years ago the first week I had the B from Cleveland to Minnesota to Arizona all the way to Albuquerque, NM at a Cracker Barrel when it was 0 degrees F. overnight.

That's not conjecture, speculation, opinion or you don't know. I know what I know. That's fact. I've enjoyed the technology for THREE YEARS.
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 03:07 AM   #20
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 35603 View Post
I have seen the Galleria order form and this is a $21,000 option.
This is a terrific option but the cost needs to come down to earth.

You overlooked something that's easy to miss. Yes, the Li3 option shows as $21,600 on the order form but what doesn't jump out at you is that the Li3 option results in the deletion of the 2000w inverter, the 300ah 8D Relion AGM, the Gen start module and Autostart, all of which is included in the required Electronics Pkg. plus the deletion of the Onan 2.5kw LP generator included in the required Convenience Pkg. Since you get no credit for these deletions, the actual Li3 premium is closer to $26,000-$27,000 which IMO is exorbitant

Retail for the Nations alternator + Balmar regulator is about $1200. The Lithionics 600ah battery + BMS retails for about $8,000. The Xantrex 3000w inverter and system control panel is about $2,500. Throw in $300 for copper etc and you're looking at a total of around $12,000.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.