OK techies, there's a new Ontario Drive Clean procedure

Mike · 01-15-2013, 07:46 PM

Just got my plate renewals in the mail, and they're changing the Drive Clean emissions test. It says they'll pull the info out of the on board computer.
Anyone know how I can use my Scangauge to see if I'll pass before I go to the test facility?

markopolo · 01-15-2013, 09:27 PM

Found this Mike: http://www.scangauge.com/tips-and-trick ... ngauge-ii/
Kind of related to your question. It's long........... and I just glanced at it.

Mike · 01-15-2013, 09:48 PM

I'll have a look. At first glance, it looks interesting.
TY.

UPDATE: Yup, that's it. Thanks. Now I have to determine what MODE I'm running in the Roadtrek, build the query CMNDS, SEND it, and see what the response tells me.

You may be able to do your own emission test, it would appear. However, I will make sure, and post up any results or issues.

markopolo · 01-16-2013, 12:20 PM

Quote:

If you see “—Ready—” in the second line after pressing SCAN, all the tests have been run and there are no trouble codes. You are ready to pass the emissions check.

Could it be as simple as the above quote or do you think the Ontario Drive Clean computer will actually pull some data from your vehicle?

Mike · 01-16-2013, 01:34 PM

I'm not sure when the test is over, but farther down in the webpage, is a "CMNDS" that needs to be "SENDed" to the OBDII, and if the response comes back with 00 in the 3rd and 4th last positions in the response, the vehicle has passed the tests. In this example, a "Ready" response from the SCAN operation is deemed to imply that there aren't any check engine codes present in the OBD. I am wondering if there are components that won't produce an engine check or a hard fail code, if they fall below acceptable functional specs while the vehicle is in use. I doubt it, but maybe there's an automotive engineer on the forum who could answer that question. I would think a "Ready" response from a SCAN, would tell me that everything is functioning as designed, and the vehicle has passed.

This should/could have been the procedure from the start of this government cash grab. The bureaucrats that dream up this stuff (btw, you have to run your dash A/C as part of the prep for the test. wonder if that will do damage to the compressor or other components, if the vehicle is scheduled to be tested in late January when it's really cold?) finally realized that if the vehicle's OBD computer tells them that all the components that are supposed to prevent excess contaminants are functioning at factory spec, then in all likelihood, the vehicle isn't polluting the air, and should be given a "pass". They've been wasting everyone's time and money doing the colonoscopy version of the Drive Clean test for over a decade, when the OBD computer already had the answers and info they wanted.
I was bored last night, so I went out and did the first 2 steps (did a SCAN, and got a "Ready", and then did a MORE>MORE>MODE and now know I am CAN enabled, and am running VPM protocol in the Chevy OBDII). I'll complete my test procedure later today, and build and SEND the appropriate query to the OBD and see what it tells me. Like the flyer says, the new procedure should only take a few seconds, to plug in the Drive Clean Facility scan tool, and send the query command to the OBDII and record the response.
Wonder what will happen if those of us who have Scan Gauges and who are semi-techie do the procedure before actually going to a Drive Clean facility, and the results are different? I test and it passes, and they test, and it fails? Hmmmm? Has to keep the Drive Clean operators honest, because they won't know whether you've got a scan tool, and already got a "pass" result.

Mike · 01-19-2013, 02:14 AM

Built the appropriate query command, sent it, and got the expected response.
No problems, no incomplete tests, "00" for the "pq" positions in the returned hex string which is a "pass".
Now, I have to find a place (Drive Clean Facility) to actually do an offical test for me.
Thanks for finding the procedure. A little peace of mind if you have the hardware and some time on your hands.

markopolo · 01-19-2013, 12:44 PM

Knowing your vehicle is going to pass (or should pass) is great.
And, if you knew it was likely to fail, you'd have time to get a few quotes for the necessary repairs and not be rushed in making that decision.

There's no emissions test here. We have an annual mechanical inspection. Brakes, ball joints, steering, etc. You really have to trust the shop you go to.

Mike · 01-20-2013, 01:03 AM

I've heard rumors that they're considering getting rid of the Drive Clean as it was obsolete before they started doing it. If they were to replace it with a mechanical fitness test instead, it will be worse. Here you can triage your vehicle repairs by urgency and impact to the safe operation of the vehicle. If I have to take it to a dealership every year, and they tell me certain things need to be done to pass, when they aren't really that bad, the average owner wouldn't know. It would put everyone who isn't automotively inclined at the mercy of unscrupulous repair centers. You're right, you have to trust your shop, but if they're in control and have the last word, what recourse do you have? 2nd opinion option? Ombudsman? If another shop says the repair in question isn't urgent, do you get a pass? It sounds like it could become a hugely expensive administrative nightmare. That sucks, really big time.

markopolo · 01-20-2013, 12:39 PM

You can take it to another shop. I had to do it. 2 no problem passes since. You know the saying; Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me............
That's always a good idea anyway - get two estimates / opinions and choose between them.
You can download the Provincial test procedure manual as well and make sure the shop test things like ball joint wear according to the manual.

Mike · 01-20-2013, 01:05 PM

My problem with the whole mechanical fitness test is it sounds like it can be highly subjective, and the technician appears to have significant leeway in his decision as to what needs to be done, and what is early stage failure. The Drive Clean test, for all it's faults, is and has been a measurable quantitative evaluation. Whether a ball joint is failing or not, can be an qualitative opinion. Is there a grievance process, if you get a fail somewhere, and another shop gives a pass for the same issue? Who do you report the shop that failed you to?
We may still have to move farther west, after all. Until we find a province with less government intrusion.

markopolo · 01-20-2013, 01:36 PM

I don't know if there is complaint procedure in place. It is highly subjective. I'm a bit negative on this only because of only one shop. Others shops have been very informative.
Easier to take it to a second shop if the required repairs seem out of line. If two shops concur on the needed repairs then you have peace of mind.
Obviously safety is most important.

Mike · 01-20-2013, 03:53 PM

Safety, yes, but not at any cost.

And absolutely not to line some repair place's pockets.

Mike · 02-08-2013, 03:56 PM

UPDATE:
Got my 2002 Chev Express van e-tested 2 days ago (before the current storm, and when there was a "dry roads" window of opportunity). It has a GVWR of 4309 KG. I found a local shop that was a DCF and got the van in expecting an easy pass because I had just checked it using my Scan Gauge II tester.

Much to my surprise, the technician pulled out the TSI (two speed idle) equipment and did a tailpipe emission test on it. I asked why, and was told the computer tells them which test should be done, and the TSI test was the answer. I was relieved when it passed, but was still skeptical of the process used.

I got home and immediately checked the MTO/Drive Clean website to see if I could figure it out based on the test threshold info there, but wound up sending a "contact us" to Drive Clean Ontario. The reply I got back explained that, in their SOP, they had some additional restrictions and thresholds for deciding which vehicles get which test. They sent me their chart for reference, and stated it's not available anywhere for the public to see. I expect it will be shortly, after a few thousand more imilar questions from puzzled vehicle owners who expected an OBD II test procedure, but got sniffed instead.

So, my van fell into the < 2007 and > 3856kg but < 4500kg range, and will always get a TSI test, unless they decide to change the rules again.

They said they used model year 2007, because they said that "Manufacturers of vehicles that fall into this equation were not required to be OBDII compliant until the model year 2007. Therefore, the best method chosen is the TSI test regardless if the vehicle is OBDII compliant."
Which struck me as a typical bureaucratic answer to what should have been a no-brainer (perhaps that has something to do with it?). It took almost 1/2 hour to do the TSI test, and it is supposed to take less than a few minutes to do an OBD test. What a waste of everyone's time, when the OBD II technology has been installed to be used as such since the mid '90s.

Personally, I think swapping the Roadtrek for a trailer would solve my Drive Clean disappointment

markopolo · 02-08-2013, 07:20 PM

Very interesting Mike. Looks like my '97 diesel would be in the "Visual Inspection" category if I am understanding the chart correctly. My van is ODBII compliant in that my ScanGauge works as intended. I don't think I'm missing any features from the ScanGauge.

Mike · 02-08-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markopolo

Very interesting Mike. Looks like my '97 diesel would be in the "Visual Inspection" category if I am understanding the chart correctly. My van is ODBII compliant in that my ScanGauge works as intended. I don't think I'm missing any features from the ScanGauge.

I think mine is as fully functional as your SG II, and I'm sure would have provided the same info as a 2007 or newer vehicle, but someone, somewhere, didn't understand that, and wanted to be "cautious" that we didn't let any non-compliant vehicles get past the (easier?) OBD II test.

You're in the pre-1998 category, if your weight (GVWR) is below 4500kg, I think you would be a visual inspection. Wonder what a visual inspection is? Smoke exiting the exhaust, I guess. I also found on the MTO/Drive Clean website that you can review your vehicle's emission test history with just the VIN number, and you can make a report of a suspected polluter online as well. It's a form that you fill in with dates/times, licence plate number, and some other info to identify the offending vehicle.

Off topic, it's very snowy here again, after we were almost snow-free yesterday. I think the precipitation has passed us, but it's windy and cold and a mess everywhere.
If you're east or southest of Ontario, Canada, you're probably getting the same as us, or will be soon.
Take any reasonable precautions, or top up any fuels or supplies you might need to be in doors for a few days, if necessary. We've been clobbered, and we weren't supposed to get the worst of it.
Take care everyone.

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