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Old 09-20-2019, 03:03 AM   #1
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Default Rivian's New Amazon Delivery Van

Looks like an EV B-van could be here sooner than you think. . .

Rivian's New Amazon Delivery Vans Look Adorable

These fully electric vans will hit the road in 2021 and will be built in Illinois.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...-delivery-van/
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Old 09-20-2019, 03:50 AM   #2
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Great. Amazon gets the first 100,000 and the rv industry has to wait. Reminds me of the Sprinter shortage Amazon caused by buying up the first batch of short Sprinters.
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Old 09-20-2019, 10:47 AM   #3
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Interesting. At least in this case Amazon is not taking existing van capacity off the market. This might even free up some Sprinters that they would otherwise be buying.

"The vans will be built exclusively for Amazon—although we could imagine Rivian selling a similar type of vehicle to other customers at some point in the future."
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Old 09-20-2019, 01:38 PM   #4
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Great. Amazon gets the first 100,000 and the rv industry has to wait. Reminds me of the Sprinter shortage Amazon caused by buying up the first batch of short Sprinters.
I doubt Rivian would be making any vans without the Amazon order to get them going.

the class b industry by itself could not support a van manufacturer
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:34 PM   #5
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Given that Amazon seems to have an order for 100,000 over the course of the next 5 years it should give them a chance to work out any kinks. Plus that's 5 years of getting some sort of recharging infrastructure in place. If and when they would be available for upfitters it might be a practical rv platform.
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Old 09-26-2019, 05:21 PM   #6
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This is why I bought a 2007 diesel, there is NO way that we are getting an electric van soon, they are not aerodynamic enough. Sure you can get a city van, like a delivery one, with maybe only 100-mile range. Who wants that in an RV, I like all day driving? Diesel will be here for my lifetime, so why wait? May even get cheaper with all the electric vehicles that are hitting the road.

No one seems to be mentioning my favorite part, the company is Rivian, so it's gonna be a Rivian Van.

-Randy

ps. I own 4 electric vehicles, so I am not a diesel troll, just got to know your limitations.
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Old 09-26-2019, 05:23 PM   #7
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Given that Amazon seems to have an order for 100,000 over the course of the next 5 years it should give them a chance to work out any kinks. Plus that's 5 years of getting some sort of recharging infrastructure in place. If and when they would be available for upfitters it might be a practical rv platform.
Very well put, let Amazon suffer all the heartache in those 5 years, then we will benefit. Just sayin'.
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:47 PM   #8
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Default What it would take for an "all" electric RV

For me to even to begin considering an electric engine based RV, the power output and density of solar cells on the RV's roof (or a generator with it's own fuel tank, or a portable nuclear fusion reactor [future right?]) would have to recharge ~20-30% of my chassis batteries every hour before I would consider it. The chassis battery capacity would have to provide at least a 500 mile range for a vehicle with the GVWR of the RV.

Charging stations are nice, but not very convenient when you are in the middle of nowhere.

Probably not going to happen in our lifetimes.
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Old 09-27-2019, 01:19 AM   #9
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For me to even to begin considering an electric engine based RV, the power output and density of solar cells on the RV's roof (or a generator with it's own fuel tank, or a portable nuclear fusion reactor [future right?]) would have to recharge ~20-30% of my chassis batteries every hour before I would consider it. The chassis battery capacity would have to provide at least a 500 mile range for a vehicle with the GVWR of the RV.

Charging stations are nice, but not very convenient when you are in the middle of nowhere.

Probably not going to happen in our lifetimes.
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Old 09-27-2019, 03:56 AM   #10
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Not to be a troll or something but the whole idea of a B van for me is getting away from it all. A fully-electric vehicle needs frequent charging at home or a charging station, and charging takes a non-trivial amount of time, so i don't think B vans are a good use case for a fully electric vehicle.

What i'd like to see is a hybrid with full regenerative braking. This would mean you could recover a good amount of the energy of trying to stop one of these big heavy vehicles. If the batteries are big enough, that energy could be used for more locomotion, which is a huge load, or it can be saved to power everything in the van. Current technology can make this happen now but i guess the OEMs don't see the market.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:21 AM   #11
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Not to be a troll or something but the whole idea of a B van for me is getting away from it all. A fully-electric vehicle needs frequent charging at home or a charging station, and charging takes a non-trivial amount of time, so i don't think B vans are a good use case for a fully electric vehicle.

What i'd like to see is a hybrid with full regenerative braking. This would mean you could recover a good amount of the energy of trying to stop one of these big heavy vehicles. If the batteries are big enough, that energy could be used for more locomotion, which is a huge load, or it can be saved to power everything in the van. Current technology can make this happen now but i guess the OEMs don't see the market.
The beauty of the large flat roof of a cargo van is that it can hold lots of solar. I've seen 22' Sprinter vans with 1000 watts of solar installed. That amount of solar can fully charge a large chassis battery bank over a few days, as well as charging the smaller house battery. Most people stay put for at least a few days when they're traveling and that's plenty of time to soak up enough sun to get you to the next destination.

That said, an all electric RV clearly isn't going to work for everyone, especially those who want to cover a lot of territory in short periods of time. However, it could be the perfect solution for those who travel within in a certain area, within a few hundred miles of home. Also, once we have a nationwide fast-charging network, which I expect to see within 5 years or so, most of the charging concerns go out the window.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:44 AM   #12
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I've seen 22' Sprinter vans with 1000 watts of solar installed. That amount of solar can fully charge a large chassis battery bank over a few days, as well as charging the smaller house battery.
I share your enthusiasm, but:
A Tesla Model S has a 100kWh battery. 1000 watts of solar might on a good day produce 5KWh of energy. Better settle in to your campsite if you are planning on recharging your chassis battery with solar alone. More than a "few days", I'm afraid.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:30 AM   #13
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I share your enthusiasm, but:
A Tesla Model S has a 100kWh battery. 1000 watts of solar might on a good day produce 5KWh of energy. Better settle in to your campsite if you are planning on recharging your chassis battery with solar alone. More than a "few days", I'm afraid.
The problem is that mobile solar solutions are rarely optimized, meaning they are simply mounted flat on the roof, which severely limits output. The solution to that problem is to install a tilting mechanism, which will allow proper positioning of the panels throughout the day. Doing this can increase output by many multiples. This guy has something like what I'm talking about and the results speak for themselves. I plan to do something similar to this when I get around to building my custom van...

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Old 09-30-2019, 09:08 AM   #14
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The problem is that mobile solar solutions are rarely optimized, meaning they are simply mounted flat on the roof, which severely limits output. The solution to that problem is to install a tilting mechanism, which will allow proper positioning of the panels throughout the day. Doing this can increase output by many multiples. This guy has something like what I'm talking about and the results speak for themselves. I plan to do something similar to this when I get around to building my custom van...
It would be closer to 20% gain - see below. I evaluated tilting and decided to do flat mount, simply not enough gain but complexity of mounting and using rather high.

Instead of tilting, increasing number of panels by stacking vertically would likely be easier to implement. A 2-layer sandwich of PV panels would double harvesting. To harvest - panels would have to slide sideways and to drive - slide back to center position.

https://www.civicsolar.com/article/s...-energy-output
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:42 AM   #15
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It would be closer to 20% gain - see below. I evaluated tilting and decided to do flat mount, simply not enough gain but complexity of mounting and using rather high.

Instead of tilting, increasing number of panels by stacking vertically would likely be easier to implement. A 2-layer sandwich of PV panels would double harvesting. To harvest - panels would have to slide sideways and to drive - slide back to center position.

https://www.civicsolar.com/article/s...-energy-output
Did you watch the video I just linked to? I'm not sure how you 'evaluated' tilting, but this video unequivocally disproves what you're saying within the first minute. He demonstrates in real time how tilting the panels increased output by 7 times! That's obviously far more than 20 percent. He goes into detail about the design of the mechanism and it's actually a very simple setup.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:44 AM   #16
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Did you watch the video I just linked to? I'm not sure how you 'evaluated' tilting, but this video unequivocally disproves what you're saying within the first minute. He demonstrates in real time how tilting the panels increased output by 7 times! That's obviously far more than 20 percent. He goes into detail about the design of the mechanism and it's actually a very simple setup.
You have valid point, with the Sun sitting low such as at 7AM gain from tilting will be high. Experiment conditions were well tuned to show maximum benefit from tilting, well done. At best harvesting time period during a day gain of tilting is about 20%, see my link.

The best would be fully automatic Sun tracking articulation so think about it, could be great choice for you. You could gain tenfold improvement at the beginning or end of harvesting time periods.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:15 AM   #17
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George is correct. Expecting a "many fold" increase averaged over the course of a day simply won't happen. Running a van in any realistic scenario using only the energy harvested from roof-mounted solar is simply a fantasy, unfortunately. It is simple math. At the earth's surface, the best-case energy density of sunlight is roughly 1,000 W/m2.

https://ag.tennessee.edu/solar/Pages...%20Energy.aspx

Even if you could capture it all (and of course, you can't, by a long shot), it would STILL take days. In real life, you are not even close.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:41 AM   #18
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George is correct. Expecting a "many fold" increase averaged over the course of a day simply won't happen. Running a van in any realistic scenario using only the energy harvested from roof-mounted solar is simply a fantasy, unfortunately. It is simple math. At the earth's surface, the best-case energy density of sunlight is roughly 1,000 W/m2.

https://ag.tennessee.edu/solar/Pages...%20Energy.aspx

Even if you could capture it all (and of course, you can't, by a long shot), it would STILL take days. In real life, you are not even close.
Nonsense. Why is it so hard for some people to just acknowledge that they were wrong? The benefits of tilting solar panels is well documented all over the web. Doing this can absolutely realized huge gains throughout the day, anytime the sun isn't directly overhead. This isn't complicated.
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Old 10-01-2019, 08:32 AM   #19
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Why is it so hard for some people to just acknowledge that they were wrong?
Good question.
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Old 10-01-2019, 02:08 PM   #20
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Nonsense. Why is it so hard for some people to just acknowledge that they were wrong? The benefits of tilting solar panels is well documented all over the web. Doing this can absolutely realized huge gains throughout the day, anytime the sun isn't directly overhead. This isn't complicated.
I agree that it is not complicated. So please provide a link (evidence, etc.) that explains "Doing this can absolutely realized huge gains throughout the day, anytime the sun isn't directly overhead."

Thanks.

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