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Old 11-18-2014, 03:45 PM   #1
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Default Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

http://roadtreking.com/roadtrek-promaster-rv

I am surprised at this, and actually pretty curious about a lot of details. ProMasters require a number of engineering workarounds, and I think RT would do a decent job at making one.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

I was going to order a 190 in first quarter. depending on what's available on this i might change my mind. Unlike sprinters i think promasters can have bigger side cuts.

they actually say they will start building these in January for general sale-we'll see.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

I thought this is an interesting setup. They couldn't let PleasureWay outdo them. I see these and the Transit killing the GM van offerings in the RV market eventually.
But I could be wrong.....
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quick note, the beds look interesting, and sort of surprised RT would make a configuration. However, for 1-2 people, this is an idea, since it leaves a large aisle in the center for bicycles, stuff, and other niceties, and the futons can be folded down and merged together for a decently sized bed.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlts22
Quick note, the beds look interesting, and sort of surprised RT would make a configuration. However, for 1-2 people, this is an idea, since it leaves a large aisle in the center for bicycles, stuff, and other niceties, and the futons can be folded down and merged together for a decently sized bed.

it needs to have the bed that can be slept in front to back-at least 74 inches


in the video on the roof what is to the right of the solar panel? any idueas
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

One thing that got me wondering... I hope RT has an onboard Onan with this model. For the price of a "B", not having a generator would be a deal-breaker for me due to needing A/C for the Texas heat.
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Old 11-18-2014, 06:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlts22
One thing that got me wondering... I hope RT has an onboard Onan with this model. For the price of a "B", not having a generator would be a deal-breaker for me due to needing A/C for the Texas heat.

MLTS- if winnebago and Plesurway can put an Onan on i'm sure roadtrek will.

However their engine generator system on some other models can also work(2nd high amp alternator and inverter).

since i will be getting a roadtrek in first quarter of 2015 I will look at it

also based on How Jim Hammill is talking the air conditioner and the awning are optional-on the diagram on his computer the cooktop looks induction.

too many variables
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

This is the floor plan that appeared on the video. Plan is flipped from traditional Roadtrek design of bathroom on the passenger side. Wet bath behind the driver looks better designed for showering. Driver seat turnaround looks tight. Refrigerator on driver's side. Closet/pantry between refrigerator and bath? That looks like an induction cooktop. I imagine the bed could infill with the back cushions or flip futon style for one large bed. Receptors front and back for stowable tables. Make the bed up and move the bikes forward or outside. Of course the plan could ultimately be a slight of hand teaser move away from the true plan. Roadtrek seems to be into those games of late.



These are the lithium ion batteries they showed in the video. They look the same or similar to the ones that showed up in the Wendland new CS video. There are eight batteries there in what looks like a stainless steel container I am guessing it would latch to the underside of the van. Once put away you really do not have to tend the batteries. The is no water to check and no acid corrosion on the connections to deal with. If they last 5,000 cycles like Advanced RV thinks then you will never deal with them.



With as many batteries they show, if they go with the Promaster and if they furnish an induction cooktop and possibly a compressor refrigerator there would not be much need for an Onan generator. Propane would be questionable but they won't have a diesel heating/hot water option. So, I would guess propane would still be there unless I am missing some other kind of heating option besides electric. Electric could be possible. We rarely run our heater except for some morning wakeup comfort for a very short time and they may have enough battery power for that. It could be like air conditioning -- if you really, really need it, get smart, and seek an electrical hookup campground. Trust me, Mr. Wendland will be plugged in when he does his winter camping rally this January at Tahquamenon Falls.

If they deliver this at $79,000 it will be their low budget option aimed at a younger market, the single person or possibly family weekender/short vacation market. With two safe seats maybe just the active younger market as evidenced by the bicycle inside tease and the fact one could even stuff kayaks and paddle boards inside the clear through aisle. It just doesn't seem adequate for extended travel by retiree or near retiree Baby Boomers. There are load limitations and simply physical limitations with a lower floor for as large of capacity tanks the Sprinters are providing. The biggest appeal of a Promaster will be the length. So far the extra 2-3" width makes it possible to sleep crosswise but no one has pushed that idea yet and in truth climb over sleeping is probably everyone's last choice desire.

Is this goodbye Ranger? Maybe Chevy in all if they decide to add the Ford Transit in the mix at a later date?
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

I'm going to change one thing i said. I don't think they are going to offer the Onan on this model. It will be engine generator or no generator.

the Ranger based price is 73,000 with no options. this promaster is about 80,000 with no options. i think some of this is set in stone in the promaster i think the added money is the mandatory engine generator. the chevy ranger plus money to put on top makes it more expensive to roadtrek than a base promaster



Davydd- the video had suburban water heater and furnace vents.


I'm probably wrong about everything
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

What!!!!!!? I hate the Suburban water heater and that damned anode rod and winterizing. That's too bad.

Don't be too down on yourself. You only whiffed on the Campskunk Sprinter CS air conditioning.
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
What!!!!!!? I hate the Suburban water heater and that damned anode rod and winterizing. That's too bad.

Don't be too down on yourself. You only whiffed on the Campskunk Sprinter CS air conditioning.

don't know that yet on campskunk
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Finally put the bathroom on the correct side.Good for Roadtrek.
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
This is the floor plan that appeared on the video. Plan is flipped from traditional Roadtrek design of bathroom on the passenger side. Wet bath behind the driver looks better designed for showering. Driver seat turnaround looks tight. Refrigerator on driver's side. Closet/pantry between refrigerator and bath? That looks like an induction cooktop. I imagine the bed could infill with the back cushions or flip futon style for one large bed. Receptors front and back for stowable tables. Make the bed up and move the bikes forward or outside. Of course the plan could ultimately be a slight of hand teaser move away from the true plan. Roadtrek seems to be into those games of late.



These are the lithium ion batteries they showed in the video. They look the same or similar to the ones that showed up in the Wendland new CS video. There are eight batteries there in what looks like a stainless steel container I am guessing it would latch to the underside of the van. Once put away you really do not have to tend the batteries. The is no water to check and no acid corrosion on the connections to deal with. If they last 5,000 cycles like Advanced RV thinks then you will never deal with them.



With as many batteries they show, if they go with the Promaster and if they furnish an induction cooktop and possibly a compressor refrigerator there would not be much need for an Onan generator. Propane would be questionable but they won't have a diesel heating/hot water option. So, I would guess propane would still be there unless I am missing some other kind of heating option besides electric. Electric could be possible. We rarely run our heater except for some morning wakeup comfort for a very short time and they may have enough battery power for that. It could be like air conditioning -- if you really, really need it, get smart, and seek an electrical hookup campground. Trust me, Mr. Wendland will be plugged in when he does his winter camping rally this January at Tahquamenon Falls.

If they deliver this at $79,000 it will be their low budget option aimed at a younger market, the single person or possibly family weekender/short vacation market. With two safe seats maybe just the active younger market as evidenced by the bicycle inside tease and the fact one could even stuff kayaks and paddle boards inside the clear through aisle. It just doesn't seem adequate for extended travel by retiree or near retiree Baby Boomers. There are load limitations and simply physical limitations with a lower floor for as large of capacity tanks the Sprinters are providing. The biggest appeal of a Promaster will be the length. So far the extra 2-3" width makes it possible to sleep crosswise but no one has pushed that idea yet and in truth climb over sleeping is probably everyone's last choice desire.

Is this goodbye Ranger? Maybe Chevy in all if they decide to add the Ford Transit in the mix at a later date?

davydd-i like you counted 8 batteies.-Roadtrek had been using 6 agms in the back and 2 in another location-because of size of agms.

any idea about the amp hours of these 8 batteries - totally and singly- I have no knowledge when it comes to lithium batteries

also with lithium batteries is multiple big alternators still needed -just wondering
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

I haven't tried to figure out what those batteries are. They are not the Smart Battery brand but they still look like discrete car size batteries vs the built up systems Advanced RV is putting together (see Technomadia on that which is similar). If they are 12V discrete batteries then you may be looking at about 800 amp hours or a little more. Say 800. That would get you at least 640 ah usable between charges which would equate to about 12 AGM 12V batteries. Since they have been using 6V batteries you'll have to do some math to figure it out. I'm just getting used to comparing the 12V stuff as I am a bit electrical dyslexic. I'll leave it to Booster and MarkoPolo for that.

Anyway you look at it, it is a lot of batteryage. Are they sliding two of those trays under? Who knows? If so they could be going after the 24/7 air conditioning Jim Hammill boasted. Personally, I am like Campskunk in regard to air conditioning and where and when to travel and would think it overkill. In my own analysis if using air conditioning only sparingly like a midday stop for the cat unattended I could not see how I would need any more than 600 ah of lithium ion batteries especially with solar (which I now don't think is that significant) and a second engine alternator that would charge 480 usable amp hours in about 1-1/2 hours. Lithium ion batteries charge faster and don't go through a last 20% slow charge phase like AGMs. Our traditional driving habits are probably going to keep our batteries charged without resort to campground engine idling since we never used our Onan for such with a lot fewer amp hours.

As for the Promaster, have they said a second engine alternator is feasible like the Sprinter? I'm guessing you could get by without on either Promaster and Sprinter. DiamondSea (Bob in the Advanced RV video) is an old sailor and eschewed the second generator idea in his Advanced RV.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

I could not find 6 volt lithium batterries-is there such a thing


also the promaster does not come with a second alternator option on the 3.6 gas-but does with the diesel.

just for ha-ha's i looked at the chevy 6.0 and it also does not have the second alternator option from the manufacturer but 3rd partys do make it-it appears raodtrek uses this 3rd party option.

the promaster does offer an original manufacturer 220 alternator instead of the standard 180. the lithium batteries are confusing all my previous agm knowledge.
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Old 11-21-2014, 12:56 AM   #16
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Those photos of Roadtrek's lithium batteries are discrete prismatic cells. Nominal volt as of lithium cell is 3.6v


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Old 11-21-2014, 01:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxster1971
Those photos of Roadtrek's lithium batteries are discrete prismatic cells. Nominal volt as of lithium cell is 3.6v


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Old 11-22-2014, 05:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Those blue batteries are for sale here: http://store.evtv.me/products.php?cat=10

Newer and lighter/smaller batteries are listed at the top of the page. The grey cells are newer/better than the older light blue ones; but the shiny blue ones are the best made right now.

It is also possible to run these batteries without the need for a BMS which is a huge deal from a cost and simplicity standpoint. Read page 6 about how to "bottom balance" them:

http://media3.ev-tv.me/cellcare.pdf
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Old 11-22-2014, 02:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

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Originally Posted by rtz
Those blue batteries are for sale here: http://store.evtv.me/products.php?cat=10

Newer and lighter/smaller batteries are listed at the top of the page. The grey cells are newer/better than the older light blue ones; but the shiny blue ones are the best made right now.

It is also possible to run these batteries without the need for a BMS which is a huge deal from a cost and simplicity standpoint. Read page 6 about how to "bottom balance" them:

http://media3.ev-tv.me/cellcare.pdf


this was very interesting. the most important thing i've learned from all these recent posts since the roadtrek promaster video is that the prices for these lithium batteries has dropped DRAMATICALLY. so roadtrek using them know seems extremly feasible.
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Old 11-22-2014, 02:19 PM   #20
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model...

Here is another source for Prismatic batteries.

http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/ ... p_295.html
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