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Old 04-15-2019, 10:57 PM   #1
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The class b forum has been know for being the most technical, and technically competent, website for class b information for quite a few years, and is the reason many of us are here. We learn from each other and broaden the knowledge base with each voyage into new or complex items. There have been many posters come through looking for help and getting it here when no place else could help. We disagree, certainly, but the basis of it all has always been data driven, which IMO is what counts if you want good results, which we get most of the time. Personal attacks and insults do nothing to advance the knowledge base.

It has been suggested that this forum should be less technical and tuned toward what everyone, everywhere, can understand without explanation. Incorrect data and units are OK if it is widely accepted by the people trying to sell you stuff, so don't correct the data just accept the wrong stuff. The goal, it appears, it to have this site be classb forum lite, or Facebook 2.

Anyone who dares to use technical terms or correct wrong information is chastised as being elitest and trying to be superior because not everyone will fully understand the discussion, which may get very technical. Solving tough or new issues isn't going to be possible without that kind of discussion by those who have the knowledge needed. Do you want your automotive tech to be able to understand your vehicle better than you do, or not? But you know what, those same elitest people are the ones that will be able to simply explain to that same person how to fix a problem without needing to understand the fine tech details that lead to the fix. That is the foundation of this forum, and there is a wide breadth of experience here that covers much more than any one person could ever know.

Markopolo started and built this forum into a very unique place on the very bland forum landscape, so it would be very unfortunate if it gets destroyed by those who really don't seem to care about helping anyone, just criticize and attack them.

I would encourage new members to not be sucked into this vortex of attack and fall for the "us against them" program that is being offered. If you see something you don't understand, just ask about it. If you see something you think is wrong, question it. That is what this forum is for. I really don't think you will find many members here that will ever criticize people for asking basic questions because we all are newbs at many things. Very simple questions have lead to some of the best discussions here, and new eyes on stuff is always good.

I now understand much better how many forums have self destructed, as it doesn't take much to drive away all the reasonable members who don't want to deal with the drama. Don't let this one be the next one to go.

Moderators, feel free to delete this if you wish, as I am sure it violates at least a few of the rules....


Edited to fit the rules... hope this one passes.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:12 PM   #2
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I agree with what he ^^^ said...
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:19 PM   #3
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Booster,
Good analysis... Good post... agree on all points..
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:33 AM   #4
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I would encourage new members to not be sucked into this vortex of attack and fall for the "us against them" program that is being offered. If you see something you don't understand, just ask about it. If you see something you think is wrong, question it. That is what this forum is for. I really don't think you will find many members here that will ever criticize people for asking basic questions because we all are newbs at many things. Very simple questions have lead to some of the best discussions here, and new eyes on stuff is always good.

I now understand much better how many forums have self destructed, as it doesn't take much to drive away all the reasonable members who don't want to deal with the drama. Don't let this one be the next one to go.

Moderators, feel free to delete this if you wish, as I am sure it violates at least a few of the rules....


Edited to fit the rules... hope this one passes.
Astute. Forums can be an amazing technical resource but they also build great brand loyalty and community. Tech heavy topics and newby questions can coexist and there is still room for topics about camping locations, pets and the best way to cook pancakes.

There is no room for trolls, attacks and rudeness. It drives away reasonable folks and in the end all that's left are board trolls, ranting at each other.
This kills forums. If you see rude posts report them so that we can take a look.
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:00 AM   #5
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Thank you Booster. There is a metric describing society capability to move together toward share goals, it is called social capital, Scandinavian Countries top this international ranking. Takes many to build and a few to destroy.

I know another forum where just a few were successful in diminishing its value. Scrubbing from polluting posts took more effort than its value, life is too short. I think it happen due to practically no existing coaching by moderators which is not a case with this forum.

No one should be forced to learn math or physics, but folks not being experts in math or physics shouldnít be telling others not to use it, different values for different folks. I wish this forum has long life ahead.
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:22 AM   #6
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Please don't change a thing about this Forum. I have been around for a number of years, have no expertise or technical qualifications, but I have learned so much. i have referred many people to this Forum that were having problems and I felt were getting the wrong info to affect a repair or mod. I thank each and everyone here for the information and guidance to complete various items I was working on. Keep this Forum just as it has been.....people don't like that = they can go elsewhere or if necessary removed. Ron
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:40 AM   #7
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What Ron said.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:14 PM   #8
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Well done Booster!
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:32 PM   #9
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Well said. I am one of those non-technical types but love the learning value of this site. It is a great resource!
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:13 PM   #10
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Well said Booster!

I depend on this forum to have technical information. On my own, I can always find where to camp in South Dakota, but questions about suspensions, electrical problems and other RV systems have been a valuable part of this site.

Don't change a thing.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:20 PM   #11
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Well said Booster!

I depend on this forum to have technical information. On my own, I can always find where to camp in South Dakota, but questions about suspensions, electrical problems and other RV systems have been a valuable part of this site.

Don't change a thing.
Not changing... but we currently have both tech topics and non-tech topics and plenty of room for both.


One of the most valuable assets of the forum is members being willing to help others no matter what their skill level is.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:45 PM   #12
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I appreciate the moderators for taking the time to scrub posts when necessary.

I don't know of anywhere else one can go and ask a technical question and get such thoughtful and in-depth discussion. I am grateful that I can do so without having to be subjected to some of the nastiness that is evident in other forums.

I come here to learn about both existing technology and what's coming up. Thank you to everyone who contributes their time and information.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:30 PM   #13
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Booster, well said & rite/write on!
I have been on this forum since '12 IIRC.
And I have watched it deteriorate to the state you describe.
Especially since MarcoPolo gave up ownership.
Not that it's all bad under new owners - it is just different and there seems to be lots more fluff and bad attitudes to sort through & skip reading.
So, keep up the good work Booster & thanks for trying to educate us.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:24 PM   #14
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I don't see it as a change of ownership in being different. It's the users. The message boards I think are all the same save for finding a home for Rialta people. Maybe it is the Facebookation of social media in changing users.
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Old 04-18-2019, 01:29 PM   #15
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I would like to expound on Booster's astute observations.

The other thing that happens is that some users seem to react with an almost violent negativity when they see some posters using their vans in a way that they personally do not. Stepping outside of the camper van box seems to be a no-no to some readers, and so they take issue with all of the questions and predicaments that it raises.

In other words, it is not a technical trigger that causes forum issues, but a lifestyle trigger. What happens next is not an accusation of elitism (as it is for some of the techie discussion directions), but rather an accusation of irrelevance, as people demand to know why a forum poster is taking up space talking about X when X is not perceived to apply to most people on the forum.

It makes no sense for anyone to push back against incidences of outside-the-box van usage. The *whole reason* why we are seeing tech revolutions (especially in area of energy supply / off-grid capacity) is so that van owners can start doing the types of things that have not been possible at any time previously.

But for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, and those opposite reactions need to be dealt with. Using Class B's in new ways hatches new problems and challenges. My main example in this regard is personal security, because right now, I'm using our van in a way that I'm not aware anyone has ever done previously (I'll post more about that when my current project is done, and I have a coherent story to tell).

Bottom line: There will be MORE unprecedented predicaments to discuss in the future, not less, and those predicaments will apply to an ever-growing class of van owner. IMO, that is worth keeping in mind for perspective when it comes to declaring which threads have a right to exist, and which do not.
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:29 PM   #16
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First off, I have a different vehicle than most posting here. And I appreciate the forum for its information that I can use despite the difference. Questions I have posed have been answered effectively and sincerely.

I have experienced forums where craziness ultimately destroyed them. I will help anyone needing assistance along the road - regardless of their bumper stickers! Doubtless others here would, too.

Thanks to everyone for what has been, and will continue to be, an interesting and informative forum. Happy motoring!
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:05 PM   #17
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I too think this is a very useful and enjoyable forum. The technical knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge is greatly appreciated.

I don't contribute much or often because I mostly know how much I don't know about class Bs. However, I read and learn from many threads (sometimes about things I would like to implement but often about things I will never have or use).

The civility and pleasantness of the vast majority of the posters makes this a very welcome respite a few of times a day. And some posters have such deep experiences with the tech side that I am often in awe.

I have observed the occasional troll but the moderators seem to be fairly quick to callout rude posters, and I appreciate the effort to keep a civil forum.

I sincerely hope it continues as an enjoyable place to learn. Thank You for allowing me to participate, please keep doing what you do.

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Old 04-18-2019, 08:18 PM   #18
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There is a fine line between lively debate and trolling. The former should be encouraged, since it is what makes a list useful and interesting. The trick is to do so while simultaneously minimizing the latter. Sometimes you just have to tolerate the trolls until they go away, which they always do as long as the rest of the group doesn't get too sucked in to pointless arguments.

In my humble attempts to help out with the moderation, when I see an aggressive post, I basically always ask one simple question: Is it attacking the idea or the person? If the former, I generally give a lot of leeway. The latter, not so much. In general, if you find yourself using second-person pronouns, it is time to think twice before pressing "submit".
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Old 04-18-2019, 09:27 PM   #19
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There is a fine line between lively debate and trolling. The former should be encouraged, since it is what makes a list useful and interesting. The trick is to do so while simultaneously minimizing the latter. Sometimes you just have to tolerate the trolls until they go away, which they always do as long as the rest of the group doesn't get too sucked in to pointless arguments.

In my humble attempts to help out with the moderation, when I see an aggressive post, I basically always ask one simple question: Is it attacking the idea or the person? If the former, I generally give a lot of leeway. The latter, not so much. In general, if you find yourself using second-person pronouns, it is time to think twice before pressing "submit".
I think your philosophy of moderating is spot on. Thanks.
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Old 04-20-2019, 02:35 PM   #20
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The light-touch approach to moderation and administration is appreciated. It works for the long term and as Avanti mentioned, those folks with troll type activity will go away and find a forum more suited for them if they aren't fed here.

We're lucky to have so many knowledgeable folks here that will explore and explain the technical side of things. I've learned so much over the years.

I think that the majority of members are appreciative of getting accurate technical info here. The phrase: "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink" is useful to remember. All you can do is offer the technical information. You can't make someone accept it or agree with it.
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