Travato 2019 vs 2020

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Snowy

The video reminded me of the limitations of this tech - it only puts out 500W. That is not much, and considering the cost and potential problems with running a fuel cell makes me think this wont go anywhere. But i have been surprised before so who knows?

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

The difference is being able to run it 24/7 without ticking anyone off. Thirty amps of DC (can’t remember output voltage) will do everything but keep an A/C running.

In previous discussions I think we decided 300 watts 24/7 is all we need.

Yes, exactly. 500 watts 24/7 is PLENTY of power for almost any reasonably scenario. These devices are meant to be used in conjunction with house batteries, not instead of them. Do the math. 500 watts is more than 40 amps @12V. That would double the run time of my not-very-efficient A/C. The fuel cell would use the rest of the day (and night) replenishing the rest. With a decent-sized house battery, it would essentially solve the power problem.

[Snowy]

I stand corrected.

[ecaba101@yahoo.com]

Don't forget you can double up the 500 watts, and get 1000 watts, this system is being used in boats plus in RV in Europe but instead of propane it runs on liquid Menthol.
looking forward to seeing what's coming out this fall.
Im not ready yet to buy my Class B yet, but doing lots of research for boondocking.
I like the idea of running propane gas fuel cell generator with no noise, if I remember right a 20lb bottle of propane can run over 200 hours.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by ecaba101@yahoo.com

Don't forget you can double up the 500 watts, and get 1000 watts, this system is being used in boats plus in RV in Europe but instead of propane it runs on liquid Menthol.
looking forward to seeing what's coming out this fall.
Im not ready yet to buy my Class B yet, but doing lots of research for boondocking.
I like the idea of running propane gas fuel cell generator with no noise, if I remember right a 20lb bottle of propane can run over 200 hours.

Whoever runs fuel cells on menthol should win a Nobel price, perhaps you meant methanol - CH3OH, it doesn’t smell as nice as menthol used in candies.

[hbn7hj]

The hybrid electrical system has much reduced my need for the propane fuel cell but I’m still interested. Was about to ping them even tho their website didn’t show any progress.

Glad someone else did.

I would have played with the Efoy if we could get the fuel at reasonable cost. I think we discussed an alternate supplier earlier then let it go.

[LostInWoods]

Originally Posted by ecaba101@yahoo.com

if I remember right a 20lb bottle of propane can run over 200 hours.

The spec on the WATT Imperium site says 0.34 lb/hr, or roughly 3 hours per pound. So your 20 lb tank would last about 60 hours of run time, generating ~30 kWh.

[ecaba101@yahoo.com]

Originally Posted by LostInWoods

The spec on the WATT Imperium site says 0.34 lb/hr, or roughly 3 hours per pound. So your 20 lb tank would last about 60 hours of run time, generating ~30 kWh.

Thanks for the correct info< I was way off >

[LostInWoods]

I'm with ya on the advantages of a virtually silent power source. I'd also love to see the waste heat go into a heat exchanger for hot water.

As a comparison, the Onan QG2800 spec says it uses 2.3 lb/h at full load, which works out to about 1200 Wh per pound of LP. The fuel cell should generate about 1500Wh with the same fuel. If it works as advertised this thing will be a winner.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Whoever runs fuel cells on menthol should win a Nobel price, perhaps you meant methanol - CH3OH, it doesn’t smell as nice as menthol used in candies.

If cost of methanol fuel would be reduced it could still be a good choice for RVs. “Methanol, in theory, can store 70 times more energy than lithium-ion.”
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...-battery-keeps

[hbn7hj]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

If cost of methanol fuel would be reduced it could still be a good choice for RVs. “Methanol, in theory, can store 70 times more energy than lithium-ion.”
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...-battery-keeps

Generic methanol or propane doesn’t matter to me. It does appear that a fuel cell for RV use is inevitable. Looking forward to it.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by hbn7hj

Generic methanol or propane doesn’t matter to me. It does appear that a fuel cell for RV use is inevitable. Looking forward to it.

All fuel cells use hydrogen directly or hydrogen from a reformed fuel, extracting hydrogen from fuel is tricky which placed "generic" in question. Many contaminants in a "generic" fuel can kill the reforming often catalytic process. It is easier to extract hydrogen from methanol than from propane. I carry ethanol for my Origo marine stove and see not issue caring methanol instead.

[kltk1]

If 500 Watts is a starting point, it will only get better with time and development. Also, if you use it as a generator to keep a lithium battery configuration charged while running everything off the batteries it could be an almost limitless source of energy.

That said, the Volta system in the Travato seems to be powering the A/C over 6 hours before the engine kicks in. That’s pretty impressive and with more/better battery capacity coming it’s going to be a tough configuration to beat. With better batteries it almost doesn’t matter that solar power generation can only get a little more efficient than it already is.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by kltk1

That said, the Volta system in the Travato seems to be powering the A/C over 6 hours before the engine kicks in. That’s pretty impressive and with more/better battery capacity coming it’s going to be a tough configuration to beat. With better batteries it almost doesn’t matter that solar power generation can only get a little more efficient than it already is.

Yes. But, don't confuse power storage with power generation. The amps have to come from somewhere, and it ain't batteries. The Volta system isn't powering anything. It is just time-shifting power generated elsewhen. Fuel cells are primary energy sources.

[kltk1]

The point being, a properly configured battery system, regardless of how the batteries are charged, powers the entire coach. A/C and all. If you have a solid foundation of battery you don’t need much power to keep them charged. Most solar configurations are coming in around 300 watts. If the fuel cell generates 500 Watts it’s already ahead of the solar panels.

That said, in the end with a good battery setup it really doesn’t matter how they’re getting recharged. Fuel cell, solar, vehicle engine, etc. And battery technology is advancing quickly at the moment and is likely to need very little power to keep charged in the future.

[Beachlife]

I bought a 2020 59K on a 2019 chassis, and the 2020.5 are coming. They added more insulation (sound and weather) to the walls, better suspension, and NDQ or quieter AC.
There are a few apps that integrate with the awning etc but nothing I could not change out or add to my Dodge ram promaster. I really like this vehicle. the 59KL has the same volt lithium system which runs around $25K. To me a good generator works fine. Oh they need to start putting quieter gens in these rigs. LOL

[kltk1]

Originally Posted by Beachlife

Oh they need to start putting quieter gens in these rigs. LOL

Ain’t that the truth. Far quieter generators have been around for a while. There’s no good reason the Onan generators, especially a small one like the one in the Travato, is so incredibly loud. Imagine that a Honda 1000 watt generator is more than enough to recharge the batteries, is incredibly quiet and fuel efficient. Yet they still use that noise box Onan puts out. Ridiculous.