Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2017, 02:20 PM   #111
Platinum Member
 
Phoebe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: California
Posts: 674
Default

Thanks for the clarification! I find these discussions entertaining and enlightening but just realized we probably hijacked the OP's thread - apologies to the OP!
__________________

__________________
2018 Coachmen Crossfit/Beyond
Phoebe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 02:22 PM   #112
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 7,517
Default

Yes, what Avanti says, and even the chemically stored energy is really heat and if it is used by burning, chemically converting, etc it will wind up as heat again. Coal and oil are prime examples that were stored eons ago.

Would having abundant, clean generated, energy, actually increase warming? IMO, maybe, depending on how crazy everyone went in wasting it on things. If it didn't generate lots of waste heat in generating, like burning does, you would reduce by that much. No CO2, you would gain in solar heat being trapped in the atmosphere and get that reduction. If the energy is so easy and cheap to get that you use million times more of it, you could cancel out the other gains. Of course if energy is that easy to get maybe they will be able to power a heat radiator to beam excess heat out to space.
__________________

booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2017, 04:19 PM   #113
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,388
Default

Until now the energy required by our human population is not in the level of causing the global warming, indeed, it can change with abundant availability and population growth. The key issue is for today is the need for energy generation which doesn’t emit global warming gases, we are not there yet.

The best shot would be to have energy limited by renewable sources; solar, wind, water kinetic energy of rivers and oceans, then there is no extra energy.
__________________
George
2013 Sprinter VOILA
https://goo.gl/photos/2NCR3teXLSwNYSwN8
GeorgeRa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 04:36 PM   #114
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 371
Default

OP here! No problems! We still don't have a class B yet and will be using our Airstream trailer for at least one more winter getaway, but have been learning all I can from this forum and from manufacturers brochures etc. I think I have boiled things down now to a few models that would suit our needs and the next phase is to go look at them in person to confirm that we do want to make the switch!

When I started out, I really felt that the underhood generator was they way to go. Now however I have reached the conclusion that, for us at least, it probably isn;t a big deal either was as we probably wold not make a lot of use of any generator! So it won't be a deal breaker for us to go either route!

I did have a rep from one manufacturer (who does not offer underhood generators) that
Mercedes do no condone use of the underhood generators / voltstart and will be soon taking a stronger position in this regard. Who knows?! I really wouldn't think that Hymer/RT would install this sort of equipt without MB's blessing.

I did in fact write MB (twice) to ask if installation of such equipment would in any way impact the usual MB warranty - excluding of course the underhood generator components which for which I assume RT would be accountable.

Maybe not surprisingly, although my messages were acknowledged and an answer promised, I never did hear anything further on the subject from MB.


There is another subject that I am wrestling with at present. I seem to hear of many issues and complexities with the Alde and Truma heating equipt. It is hard to know how to put the comments in perspective, but I'm almost thinking that if I had a choice at this point, I'd almost prefer to stick with the old standby products of old!

Brian.
<<B-Guy>> is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 04:49 PM   #115
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post
I did have a rep from one manufacturer (who does not offer underhood generators) that
Mercedes do no condone use of the underhood generators / voltstart and will be soon taking a stronger position in this regard.
Underhood generators and voltstart are two completely different issues:

Your source's claim is totally false WRT the former. The engines are explicitly designed with provisions for such a takeoff, and Mercedes sells brackets for the purpose.

Voltstart is more nuanced: MB is not fond of direct connections to the CANbus, which is more or less necessary for remote start. That doesn't mean that an upfitter can't get approval for such a thing, but it is not black-and-white.

Quote:
I did in fact write MB (twice) to ask if installation of such equipment would in any way impact the usual MB warranty - excluding of course the underhood generator components which for which I assume RT would be accountable.
Contrary to the constant Internet litany, NOTHING "voids" your OEM warranty. Ever. That would be against US law. You are correct that any aftermarket parts are not covered under the warranty (obviously). Also, any damage caused by aftermarket modifications are excluded from the warranty. But these are exclusions; i.e, they were NEVER covered in the first place. Your warranty
continues in effect, and covers everything that it ever covered.
__________________
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
Now!: 2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2018, 05:25 PM   #116
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,388
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingeezer View Post
…………………..
There is another subject that I am wrestling with at present. I seem to hear of many issues and complexities with the Alde and Truma heating equipt. It is hard to know how to put the comments in perspective, but I'm almost thinking that if I had a choice at this point, I'd almost prefer to stick with the old standby products of old!
Brian.
Truma and Alde are very different.
Truma is similar to Webasto Dual Top except in NA it is only LPG powered. In EU it is either diesel or LPG and diesel technology is from Eberspacher as far I remember. LPG furnace heats air and hot water tank directly. It is very similar to Eberspacher/Espar Airtronics D2/D4 heater plus it has a hot water tank.

Alde is hydronic heating, LPG (I think they have diesel as well) furnace heats coolant which heats air and water via heat exchangers. Rixen is similar using Espar D5 hydronic heater, it is used by Advance RV. It is much more complex due to coolant circulation through the van. But, for winter camping it could be unbeatable.

I have Espar Airtronics D2 to heat our well insulated van (Thinsulate), it is by far the best RV heater we ever had. It operates on 4 heat output levels. All 4 levels have different fan RPM so at low level it is practically silent. Truma space heating should be very similar, it has similar technology of furnace heating air directly.

For water heating I have Espar Hydronic D5 circulating coolant through marine water heater, similar to Alde. I could extend this hydronic heating for additional heating in very low temperatures or for winterizing under the floor heating (in works). Alde is the same, it could be use for under the floor tanks via coolant.

If I would be converting another van I would choose a Truma, a much simpler system. I was evaluating a Webasto Dual Top but in my van, it would require eliminating of the spare tire.

I think that the Alde System is an absolute overkill for a van, for a large RV when heat needs to be distributed throughout larger distances hydronic heating makes more sense.

Truma electric energy consumption is most likely lower, (needs verification), coolant doesn’t need to be circulated so there is no coolant pump. One issue with Webasto Dual Top and likely with Truma as competing needs for air and water heating, so starting from cold you need to wait for water to heat-up.
__________________
George
2013 Sprinter VOILA
https://goo.gl/photos/2NCR3teXLSwNYSwN8
GeorgeRa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 02:37 AM   #117
Platinum Member
 
Phoebe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: California
Posts: 674
Default

The Truma Combi heats both air (furnace) and water using propane. Low setting of 7,500 BTU consumes 5.3 oz/hr and high setting of 14,300 BTU consumes 10 oz/hr.

The "plus" models will also heat using 120 AC (shore power or generator). Electric furnace heating uses 7.1 A (850 W) on Low and 14.2 A (1,700 W) on High.

Both settings also use approximately 1.7 A from the 12V system for the blower.
__________________
2018 Coachmen Crossfit/Beyond
Phoebe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2018, 10:36 PM   #118
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 371
Default

OP here again!

Thanks guys, I guess if when I buy a "B," from what I've learned, I wont be too bothered whether we wind up with a U.H. generator or an Onan - for the amount we will use it.

I don't think we'd use Voltstart a whole lot. I note that PW now offer their version on Voltrstart but with an Onan. Called AGS ("Auto generator start" I guess)


As for heating systems I think I'd be ok with Truma but maybe less so with Alde, not sure I need the added complexity.

The way we use our RV at present, AC seems more a concern than heat and our heat pump in our present trailer is all we need as a rule. About the only time we use our furnace is at a Flying J when heading N or S on our winter getaways!

For our last 19 yrs of RV'ing since retirement I would guess 90% of our sites have had full hookups.

I suspect if we change our 31ft trailer and truck for a "B" we will be spening more time in State and Provincial parks, but even then, most parks we have stayed at have water and elec if not sewer.

I could be wrong, but doubt we'll do a whole lot of boondocking if we make the switch - although more than we do now I'm sure!

Brian


PS - can anyone tell me if these elec awnings that now seem on almost all "B's"
can be tilted fore and aft in the event of rain?

I am guessing that maybe the ones with legs acn and those without legs perhaps cannot so you need to bring them in during any significant rain?


But I'm not sure - our son in law has a fifth wheel with a large elec awning. It not only retracts in strong wind automatically, but also dumps rain by temporarily lowering one end when it senses the wait of accumulated water!
<<B-Guy>> is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2018, 12:22 AM   #119
Platinum Member
 
Phoebe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: California
Posts: 674
Default

You should start a new thread for the awning question. But in the meantime - we have the Carefree legless power awning and it is only for shade - not to be used in wind or rain - which really cuts down on the utility, IMO.
__________________
2018 Coachmen Crossfit/Beyond
Phoebe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 02:13 AM   #120
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: California
Posts: 10
Default

Can someone share a photo of Control Panel in 210P with UG? I am looking at buying a 2016 with UG and here is the photo of panel. The plastic panel above the 2nd row seat shows the 'placeholder' cutouts that would have been used for the Onan switch and meter. I think it so very odd that RT would left the control panel so half as**d -- so am suspecting this is an after market UG -- dealer doesn't know and original window sticker not available.
__________________

roadbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.