What Choices Are There For No-Propane Class B's?

[BobB]

Originally Posted by avanti

Our van came with a propane system that only supports an Onan genset and a cooktop (our Rixen's diesel Espar unit takes care of heat and hot water). I have since added a second engine alternator, so the Onan is now kind of belt-and-suspenders. I keep going back and forth on whether to just remove it for the sake of weight savings.

I knew Espar units were for heat, but did not know they took care of hot water, too. There are diesel stoves, used on boats in northern climes, but they have their own pros and cons ( Stove Selection Advice | West Marine )

Do you start up the gennie once a month to exercise it? Maybe in the long run, if you remove it, there would be space to expand tank capacity (black, gray or water) ?

[BobB]

Originally Posted by tgregg

We have a diesel cooktop and a diesel furnace in our gasoline engine equipped Promaster.

What brand diesel cooktop do you use? I am only familar with diesel stoves on boats.

[tgregg]

Originally Posted by BobB

What brand diesel cooktop do you use? I am only familar with diesel stoves on boats.

Wallas Marine / Webasto.

Wallas made the stove for boats originally and after joining Webasto they added a high altitude switch and some intake / exhaust systems more appropiate to the RV world. Both now sell the same sealed burner stove. There is an optional cover that allows the stove to be used as a room heater (we don't have it).

They used to split the market between marine and RV. I don't know how they do it now.

We have the Wallas version from Scan Marine because we bought our first one 12 years ago from them before the merger with Webasto and we also bought our second one from them because of their excellent customer service.

We had one like you are probably thinking of 25 or 30 years ago on a sailboat. Nothing like the glass top, ceramic sealed burner, computer controlled Wallas / Webasto.

https://www.webasto.com/int/markets-...king-solution/

Wallas | XC Duo | XC Duo | Easy and warm camper travelling

https://www.scanmarineusa.com/

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by BobB

I knew Espar units were for heat, but did not know they took care of hot water, too. There are diesel stoves, used on boats in northern climes, but they have their own pros and cons ( Stove Selection Advice | West Marine )

This is our Advanced RV and shows our Espar diesel-fired heat exchanger (top) that heats glycol and then circulates that glycol to a glycol to air/fan located in the toe space below the kitchen galley. The module at the bottom is a glycol to water heat exchanger for hot water to the van. This is all below the floor right under the driver's seat so there is no potential cabinet space taken up inside the van or exhaust vents poking through the outside wall. It's quiet, efficient and the hot water is unlimited. There is also a Rixen glycol tank under the hood with an electric heating element to heat the glycol that can be used when plugged into shore power. The diesel use is about a cup per hour. The intake from the diesel tank is above the 1/4 full mark so you cannot run out your diesel while parked.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BobB

I knew Espar units were for heat, but did not know they took care of hot water, too.

One of the things that the Rixen's setup adds to the generic Espar D5 is a flash-plate water-to-water heat exchanger that implements on-demand DHW. It is really great.

Do you start up the gennie once a month to exercise it? Maybe in the long run, if you remove it, there would be space to expand tank capacity (black, gray or water) ?

I do turn it on occasionally, but the "once a month" thing is overblown, IMO. It may be important for the gasoline version, but propane is much more forgiving. You DO want to run it occasionally to keep the commutator surfaces clean, but I don't lose sleep over it.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The module at the bottom is a glycol to water heat exchanger for hot water to the van.

Respectfully (and just for the record), the module at the bottom is NOT the heat exchanger. It is the Espar's exhaust muffler. If you follow the silver pipe at the bottom, you will discover that it leads to a tail pipe.

The Rixen's flash-plate heat exchanger looks something like this:

[BBQ]

.

I don't know why we have such fear or aversion for diesel appliances.

Diesel is basically kerosene; we had no problem using it on camp stoves and lanterns during our younger days.


Ok before someone jumps on me, I know kerosene is not Diesel. Kerosene is more refined; it burns clean while diesel stinks.

[BBQ]

This diesel burner actually looks pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AejatYmUAK4

[avanti]

Originally Posted by BobB

Maybe in the long run, if you remove it, there would be space to expand tank capacity (black, gray or water) ?

If I do end up removing the Onan, I will most likely use the space for an under-mount 12VDC split air conditioner. Either that or I will put back the spare tire that originally occupied that space.

[BBQ]

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Some food for thought on radiant floor

Part Eleven – A New Vehicle, New Questions – Class B Warned

[gregmchugh]

BBQ, I guess you are on the Roadtrek Owners Group...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by BBQ

This diesel burner actually looks pretty cool.

Here is another good video of the Webasto, interesting that he cooks directly on the cooktop using a silicone bbq mat...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e3aa4n4DMls

[Keyne]

Originally Posted by Davydd

This is our Advanced RV and shows our Espar diesel-fired heat exchanger (top) that heats glycol and then circulates that glycol to a glycol to air/fan located in the toe space below the kitchen galley. The module at the bottom is a glycol to water heat exchanger for hot water to the van. This is all below the floor right under the driver's seat so there is no potential cabinet space taken up inside the van or exhaust vents poking through the outside wall. It's quiet, efficient and the hot water is unlimited. There is also a Rixen glycol tank under the hood with an electric heating element to heat the glycol that can be used when plugged into shore power. The diesel use is about a cup per hour. The intake from the diesel tank is above the 1/4 full mark so you cannot run out your diesel while parked.

You mentioned you didn't use the propane heaters much in your previous B's; do you use the Espar a lot now in comparison?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Keyne

You mentioned you didn't use the propane heaters much in your previous B's; do you use the Espar a lot now in comparison?

We usually sleep down to 30 degrees with no heat using our sleeping bags and turn the heat on in the morning before getting out of bed. I actually sleep very well that way. My first overnight ever in a tent was as a Boy Scout in the dead of the winter. I've kind of liked it ever since. We have had quite a few nights in temperatures ranging from 0 to 20 degrees overnight. We leave the heater running. It is much quieter than those propane Suburban heaters that are quite common in Class Bs. Since the burner is outside the van you don't hear it inside much but it does sound like a jet engine getting ready for take off when you are outside.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Some food for thought on radiant floor

Part Eleven – A New Vehicle, New Questions – Class B Warned

Wow, quite a few changes between the two model years.
Looks like a complicated system. Plus there would be additional maintenance / expense with periodic system flushes to maintain corrosion protection, freeze protection and to maintain the warranty.

Frustrating time for that owner. Hopefully it's all sorted out to their satisfaction soon.