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Old 04-22-2011, 04:32 PM   #1
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Default What could the scam be?

Selling an RV can be entertaining for sure.

I'm dealing with someone who says he wants to buy my RV. One of my requirements is he inspects the RV first and if he wants to buy it then we all go to a branch of his bank where he purchases a bank draft payable to us.

Instead he said he has purchased a bank draft and says there's a phone number we can call to verify it. Then he says he can bring cash. The last thing I want is that much cash. A draft is traceable, legitimate money. He hasn't even seen the RV.

The thing is he just refuses to purchase a bank draft when we are present and that causes me concern. His excuse is that he "doesn't want to give the bank branch here his information". He's a client of the bank - they already have his "information".

So the deal is off.

I have read of scams where the phone number on the fake draft routes back to the scammers and everyone knows that fake drafts are a possibility.

What could the scam be? Theft of the RV?
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Old 04-22-2011, 06:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

Marko, in view of all the scams we have heard about and read about, it would definitely raise the hairs on m neck!!! You set the way you want to do business, and what you say here, it is so easy to comply with - so what's his problem. I know you want to sell, but this "buyer" makes my alarm go off.
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

If he already has the draft the phone number and the draft could be fake. Like when someons sends a bank draft or money order for a sum larger than needed and says just give them the $$$ difference either cash or check. They in turn cash the check and by the time you find out their draft or Mo is fake you are out everything. That is as close as I can come up with.

When I was buying one I had an email telling me they had one in Californis but I was to send the "good faith money" to Ireland or someplace, than they would arrange me to get the RV and I can then send the rest of the money once I have it. Needless to say I said no way. I could have had a person there to check it out and pay them or their represenative but all they had were excuses. When they saw I wasn't going to budge they stopped contacting me.
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Old 04-23-2011, 02:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

Sounds like a variation on the over payment scam. The offer to bring cash is probably just a
mis-direction ploy to make you trust him more.
The real scam is probably closer to what g1g theorized. I doubt anyone would
want to steal something as large as a class C van as it wold be hard, but not impossible, to "fence",
unless they have a prepaid container ready to ship it overseas or someplace that it would be hard to
get it back if you could find it.
I'd say it's some sort of setup.
Dig in your heels about doing it your way.
It sounds safe for you and a potential buyer, and isn't unreasonable.
Did he give you the phone number? Google it. It might
give you a clue. (I google everything )
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Old 04-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

I Google everything also Mike. It's very useful.

Some scams are readily identified. If this one is a scam then it almost got me.

I have his name and phone number supplied by him and I confirmed it with a reverse phone number lookup. He has phoned us and we have phoned him. A search for his email address did not turn up anything odd. IP lookups of the info in the email headers showed he was communicating from the part of Canada where he said he was.

The first email was very suspicious:

Quote:
You have an interresting offer and I will give you 35000 right now if you accept my bid. I will be back at home wednesday and can meet you thursday. Excuse my english. Have a good day.
He is French Canadian and fluent in French. After much thought I did reply to it.

The second email seemed more real:

Quote:
No, I come from Quebec, my english spoking is missing some pratice and it maybe possible to communicate by mail until we fix a meeting.

My name is (Name), (Phone Number)

I would like to know information about:
- Mecanical inspection ?
- How many owner ?
- Body, rust ?
- smoking ?

I will be at home wenesday and ready to meet you when you will be avalaible
My bank ask me serial number of the vr. for autorisation
I replied with more info.

Third email was similar:

Quote:
Hello,
Some more questions:
- Any sign of pet ?
- tire condition (percent)
- ''auvent'' ?, motorized ? (auvent = awning)
For my family it will be better with a bed on the top, it is possible to fit ? (I took this to mean over the cab)
Not sure to understand about the braking system and used value it could have,I do not have intention on towing a car but I will appreciate if you let it go with the rv.
Thanks again !
I replied with more info and lots of photos and pointed out the problems with the RV like some rust that needs to be repaired on the electric steps etc.

Fourth email:
Quote:
Thanks for all information,
Thats enough to hope that is good for the price...I will confirm to you the clock I will be at Moncton (tuasday) probably later today....
Have a good day !
Then I noted how payment should be made and repeated: The method of payment described above is very important to us. Please let us know if you agree with it. at the end of the email.

Fifth email:

Quote:
Yes I will be happy if you ''de-winterize the RV and flush out all the plumbing so that it is ready for use.'' but if it's not too long, it could be better for my learning to do it together. For the water, yes it should be good to have for the travel.
- I'm calling my insurance to have the paper ready to fax on thusday.
- I will know more about my bank communication with our bank about how to proceed according to your suggestion.
Good day
Sixth email:

Quote:
Hello,
I have a ''draft bank'' to your name and it's supposed to be verified by calling at my bank with the number on it. It shouldn't add any other delay (we must call before 16hre).
Good weekend !
That's when I replied that I couldn't accept that and that we'd all have to go to his bank branch here where I could see him purchase the draft.

Seventh email:

Quote:
I can buy a draft bank to your bank with my draft bank. Real money it's real money whatever the bank it come from.
Give me feed back, I hope I did'nt buy my train ticket for that. Anyway, I have another one already spoted, please be serious because I'm serious.
Have a good weekend !
We phoned him and explained that we needed to be there when he purchased the draft then we would be sure it was real. He offered cash etc. but would not agree to purchasing the draft with us present. That makes me extremely suspicious.

If this is a scam (you can see how I still say if) then my guess is that something would have come up toward the closing of the deal like the draft was made out for more than the agreed amount or after inspecting the RV he would find something he didn't like and offer less but present the draft for the full amount and I have to give him some cash back or something. A bigger scam would be that something would delay his trip and he'd mail the draft to show good faith. We deposit it and then and emergency for him would prevent him proceeding with the purchase. He'd let us keep some money if we refunded most of it quickly. You can see I have a very active imagination

If it is not a scam then it could be that he's suspicious of me for wanting to go to the bank with him.........

I won't budge on the method of payment. Witnessing the buyer buy the bank draft is a sure way to know the money is real.
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Old 04-23-2011, 01:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

Maybe a variation of this:

Quote:
8. The scammer will very quickly send you a cheque, money order or bank draft
9. After you have confirmed that you have cashed the payment, the scammer will tell you that they have had a horrible life event--- a death or illness in the family, falling victim to a natural disaster, or even needing the money because of an unexpected pregnancy.
10. The scammer will ask you to refund the money right away to deal with their new life issues.
11. You will have a valid cheque, money order or bank draft sent to the scammer, feeling sorry for their situation. Because the shipping company doesn't exist, they never picked up the artwork and you don't have a problem with refunding the sale
12. The scammer receives your cheque and cashes it
13. Your bank realizes that the cheque, money order or bank draft from the scammer is a fake and removes the money from your account
14. You have now lost the money, with very little recourse for recovering it!
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Old 04-23-2011, 03:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

The funny thing is that he wants you to call the number on the draft to confirm it. Tell him you intend to have your bank look up the number for his source and call them and not use the number on the draft. If it is phony, he will be gone quickly.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

booster's idea makes sense. Should flush the guy if it's a scam.
I can't think of any good reason why he can't allow you to be present when he
buys the bank draft or certifies a cheque. Doesn't make sense.
Did you google the confirmation phone number, and is it at a legitimate bank or FI?
I'm always finding 800 numbers tha call my cell, and I rarely answer when I don't recognize the number.
EVEN if it's a legit number I can't think of why he doesn't want to do the cheque/draft thing with you present.
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Old 04-24-2011, 11:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

Yes, I was thinking along those line at first. I set up an appointment with my bank. I also called his bank and got the number that I should call. So I was prepared.

BUT.......... Something just doesn't feel right. If he really was so interested in my RV that he just had to purchase a draft before even seeing the RV then my request to wait and purchase the draft here should not have been a deal breaker. His bank has a branch in town here - two minutes away.

I specifically asked him to let me know if he did not agree with how we wanted payment. But, instead he goes ahead and says he purchased a draft.

He planted many seeds in conversation - 3yr old twins, a father that might like to make the trip, working up North, 7 days on, 7 days off, work week starts on a Wednesday - deal was to be done on Tuesday, he got a pre-approved bank loan for it, All very normal things..............

I really suspect that the scam part of this scam had yet to be fully presented to me. I just don't understand why my request would be a deal breaker. At worst he'd think I'm overly cautious but instead he won't come and buy it now.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: What could the scam be?

Put the shoe on the other foot for a minute.
Could he be suspicious of your intentions?
Maybe he thinks you're trying to pull something, by insisting that the bank
draft be purchased in your presence ? Maybe he's concerned you'll somehow
try to scoop his personal banking info or something?

The phone number checked out then? Could he think you're going to try to squeeze
a few more dollars out of him at payment time?
Perhaps he figures if he has the exact amount he wants to pay on the draft he shows up with,
it'll be easier to say, "sorry, this is it, it's all I can afford"??
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