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Old 04-22-2018, 07:13 PM   #1
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Default Front Coil Springs - 2015 RT210

I live "up a rutted, potholed, dirt road" - great sanctuary bordering a cove of a lake. Three times I have had problems, once with our road and another in a local gas station, and yet another time I had a real dip at some restaurant and heard the scraping. I have read other inputs on raising RT's and your comments/recommendations, and decided I would go this route, before the skirting gets ripped off or cracked or do some other damage.
I went to MOOG - they do not have Springs for this Year Model. They provided me with this info:
"Constant Rate Springs: 4.06" Inside Diameter; 1.03" Bar Diameter; 1570 lbs/in. spring rate; 5934 lbs. load; 14" Installation Height; 17.78" Free Height; End Type 1 - Tangential; End Type 2 - Tangential.
Can anyone make a recommendation on Front Springs, and this Description - is it for having some fabricated....I am not remotely knowledgeable about this, so I come to the experts.

Also, I went to AutoAnything to start the search, only to find they don't have Moog. They had TuffTruck Coil Springs - Super Coils-SSC-14 - Front H-D Stock Replacement = #403.88. It shows it fits this Year/Model.

To lift the rear, I was looking at:
Firestone Air Bag Suspension Kit (Sport Ride Rear Suspension Kit) Express 3500 Single Wheels $329.99.

Plan on changing to the Bilstein Shocks: B6-24-22-1948(Rear), 24-187435(Front).

Like I mentioned above, I would appreciate any recommendations/ guidance you can give me to start this "adventure." Due to health, we plan on using it as a daily driver, along with any trips we can get in. Thank again, Ron
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:42 PM   #2
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Wow, the application charts for the springs really go to crap after 2010, it appears.

Supersprings, Tufftruck and a few others show the same springs all the way from 2003 to the present. MOOG goes to 2006 and Husky I think went to 2010.

I looked at the part numbers for the control arms, both upper and lower, for 2010 and 2015 and they were identical, as were the knuckles, so the best guess is that everything is the same all the way up in the spring area.

The MOOG you describe that they recommended is likely the MOG-8004, which is the one that is normally recommended for the Chevies these days. They will give about 1.75" on a 190 and a bit more than that usually on a 210 which is normally a bit lighter on the front than a 190.

The Superspring SSC-14 looks to be nearly identical to the 8004 but more expensive most places.

I would put 90% confidence the 8004 or equivalent would be what you need, but there is no 100% proof of that until they go to put them in.

I like airbags in the rear, personally, others prefer bigger springs. The airbags allow some tuning and leveling, which I like. Firestone makes good bags mount to the bottom of the shackles and sit in front of the axle, rated at 3500# capacity at 100psi. Airlift bags mount above the axle and are rated at 5000# at 100 psi so they would run at less air pressure for the same lift. With Airlift you need to get the model for the boxed frame that is usually called out for passenger vans, even though ours are cargo vans. We have had both brands of bags in our van, and I would give the Airlift a small preference but not be a lot.
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:26 PM   #3
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Airlift has rear bags with an internal bumpstop. That might prove to be a helpful feature should a bag ever leak.

If getting air bags I'd suggest having it fully plumbed in to a compressor controlled from inside the coach. I skipped that step to save money and it works for me as I have a compressor and check pressure often but at some point easy and convenient is the better way to go.

I have Moog front coils, rear Airlift bags and Bilstein shocks all around on my old van and have never regretted the money spent or the effort it all took to install. The van has a sport like handling now compared to before.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:03 PM   #4
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Here's a table with all of the Moog spring specs:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Moog.jpg (228.6 KB, 49 views)
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:20 PM   #5
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We are set up much like Marko. He had the first of the Airlift bags with the internal bumpstops in them, and we have changed to them also. They are very nice, and you don't have to worry if you get a leak of bag failure.

The differences we do have are that we do have a compressor onboard, but didin't run the controls to the coach. We use the manual controls mounted inside the side storage pod. We have never seen the need to adjust while driving. Having the compressor onboard is nice as you can also get some leveling when camped.

If you do use the Airlift bags with the bumpstops, you also have the possibility of removing or rearching, the overload leaf on the rear springs to prevent "slapping" of it on the rest of the springs on big bumps. We did that a couple of years ago (removed the overload leaf) and have been very happy with the results.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:21 PM   #6
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If this info on eTrailer is correct:

https://www.etrailer.com/question-127430.html

Quote:
The free hanging length of the spring is 17-3/4 inches, the width of the springs is approximately 5-13/16 inches, the wire diameter is 1-1/16 inches, the spring rate is 2,026 pounds, and there are 8.8 turns in the spring.
Then the Supersprings Super Coil wire is 1/32" greater diameter than the Moog 81004 so it will be stiffer. The spring rate is listed as 2,026 lbs in that etrailer answer so it is greater than the Moog 81004 at 1,570 lbs.

I'd be more inclined to try the Moog 81004 as I'd be concerned that the SSC-14's could be too stiff. The 81004 and SSC-14 coils are almost exactly the same height.
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Old 04-23-2018, 06:33 PM   #7
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As always, thank you for your help. After reading your recommendations, I plan on going with the Moog Coils, I don't need a stiffer ride, and Booster said that the equipment match up was the same. I plan also to get the Bilsteins. I had originally said about using Firestone Air Bags, but see they will require drilling, and now, after your inputs, I will opt for AirLift. Can I ask for any particular Model recommendation, i see they advertise a 5K Rear Leveling Kit, a 5K Ultimate, and a LoadLifter 7500XL. Marko mentioned the onboard compressor, any recommendations there would be appreciated; I like that idea of making leveling up easier. FWIW, I do carry a small 110V compressor, and in my situation, it might be the quickest. As I mentioned, we don't do a lot of camping, but we have been finding it better for travel......ideal! Thanks again, Ron
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:21 PM   #8
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This looks to be the Airlift kit you would need. 5000# capacity and with the internal bump stop.

https://www.airliftcompany.com/shop/88205/

If you are already carrying a portable, you likely could pass on the built in compressor. They are expensive.

When you have the bags put in, it is a good idea to have them use two fill valves so you can use them for side to side leveling, as the Chevies usually need some.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:56 PM   #9
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I don't know much about the onboad compressor systems - sorry. I'd likely go with an Airlift compressor. As Booster pointed out - being able to set different pressure for each bag is the way to go for more precise leveling. I know one bag gets a bit more pressure on my van to make the wheel well heights the same.

Airlift often has mail in rebates: https://www.airliftcompany.com/support/rebates/

It's worth checking that page. The current rebates look to be for purchases from a professional installer but that's not always the case. I got some money back via mail in rebate from my purchase of Airlift bags off Amazon.
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Old 04-23-2018, 10:10 PM   #10
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Just an update. Since I can't do the install anymore, I checked around for an Air Lift Retailer/Installer. I found an Off Road Outfit; called some friends in the area and they give them good remarks - been at the same location for 40+years. They also show Bilstein Shocks and in my e-mail I said I wanted to install the Moog Coils, and if they could and would, I could order and have them available. If they can't do the springs, there are a load of outfits nearby. When they call, I want to drive up for a face-to-face, and if they have the Air Lift available, and their compressor hook-up, I would like to see it....just so I am aware of what it is and visualize where things would go. I am going for the dual valves, but like to see the options. I will let you know the outcome of the call....I really want to get this done....I can see that front/rear end getting busted up (it is a whole lot thinner than I had on the '05). Again, thanks for everything. Ron
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:43 PM   #11
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Just another update; the installer and I came to a parting of the ways...... he said the price just changed! The Springs were quoted at $399.00 + 350 installation, yeah, right! The Bilstein's came in at $110 per for the front, $119 per for the rear....we never got to the AirLifts, I terminated that quickly. I went ahead and ordered everything from Amazon, and they have Moog 81400 for $68 and change from a place called PartsHawk. Others were all in the $200+ range. I said I had to see what I would get for $68.......I got the same spring! A mechanic I know said he will try and do it, in the meantime I will look around. Ron
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:06 PM   #12
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Ron, this must be a common problem for us non-DIY owners.
My first RT190 lift turned out pretty poor. Described that somewhere on here. We drove it like that to Alaska & back in 2012 (coil bind & bounce)!
Then sold that RT. Now have a 2013 190. Rode so low that broke the waste tank drain line. So now trying to get proper lift completed. Going to 2nd lift shop to correct what the 1st guy f'ed-up. 1st guy installed "Super-springs" that I still have from the '02 RT that weren't used. He then dropped the lower control arm (I don't know why?) But didn't use correct shocks!?
He did install 'Airlift' system in rear w/ on board remote control compressor.
And Bilsteins in rear (maybe correct.). I've lost confidence with that guy & am concerned with safety of the front suspension. And now going to have it checked & corrected (hopefully!)
Good luck with yours! (and mine too?)
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:24 PM   #13
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I hope Ron has typo. 81004 springs not 81400.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:21 PM   #14
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Booster......nah, I screwed up and ordered the wrong ones. As soon I seen your comment......went to my notes - oh sh..! I am thankful you caught it, because I would have went ahead to see about having them put in...so I can reorder with only paying the Return Shipping. Thanks again for your guidance.....and thanks so much for catching the transposed numbers. Ron
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:25 AM   #15
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It's great that the error was caught so quickly. Nice catch Booster!

I've previously benefited from posting about a job done and had a knowledgeable forum member point out what should have been done which allowed it to be corrected quickly. Forums are great that way.

Looks like the Moog 81004's are around $190 on Rock Auto so way less than the first installer quoted Ron. Just over 50% less!
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:52 AM   #16
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Your spot on Marko, Booster really saved me on that....I can imagine someone trying to install them and.....wow, I would have been red faced and paying dearly! I went back in and asked to return the incorrect ones.....waiting to hear about that, most likely tomorrow. I went and looked at Amazon again, the also had the 81004 at around $80.00 from the same organization. First thing that jumped out was the incorrect springs weighed in at 28+lbs, the 81004 68lbs; Fed Driver (Lady) not gonna be a happy camper this time, ha! I have learned so much here, and others checking behind me.....priceless, thanks again. ROn
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #17
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There is a set of very low priced "Moog 81004" listed on Amazon when I looked just now but I wonder if they are actually 81004's. When I scroll down to Technical Details it shows OEM Part Number 80919 and the length is too short. Also, the first reviewer says they sent the wrong coils to him.

Those particular coils come direct from Amazon so it would be a very easy return (except for having to lug the weight around) but if I was ordering, I'd probably skip those although tempting to roll the dice on them.

Amazon recently sent me the wrong Motive Products adapter. I chose replacement during the first return process and they sent out the wrong part again! I have Prime so it only cost me some time, tape, paper & ink.
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:06 PM   #18
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I contacted Amazon about returning the 81400 Moog Springs. They were shipped from JWC, LaSalle, IL, via FedEx. I was expecting to be allowed the return at my expense...and rightfully so, since I messed it up. This morning I received an e-mail from JWC, saying I could return, and also a e-mail from Amazon with the RTA#, FedEx Shipping back to JCW, and Home Pickup on 5/8....wow! Once this gets finalized I will go back and see about ordering. Marco, I looked at those Springs you mentioned...they are the ones who show an OEM#....none of the others show that info. I read the comments about incorrect sizing; Moog shows:
ID-4.06";Installation Height-14";Bar Diameter-1.03"; Free Height-14"

I also checked Rock Auto & Summit Racing, they do not show OEM# either. I also looked at the Super Springs that Booster mentioned; the size seems to be larger, but it also states they fit the 2015 Express 3500 - and at $403.00. Ron
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:22 PM   #19
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UPDATE: I took my '15 210 into a Shop in Roanoke Rapids, NC the other day...I waited three weeks for a call to tell me when to show up. The Owner/Boss said he will not commit to a hard date due to how fluid things can get. As I said, I had all the items, Springs that Booster recommended, Bilsteins, and AirLift for the Rear. Total Labor for work was $510, and I was really satisfied. They had never seen the vehicle until I showed up, they knew it was an Express 3500. The Boss did the Springs himself, he dropped the bottom out, and removed the old and hoisted that monster into place. I drove 50 miles over country roads to see how it would work....what a change in the handling. This project came as a result of the road I live on being so difficult to move up or down...wife was behind me and said it had no bounce, and to me it was a piece of cake to handle. I want to thank Booster, and all the result of the folks who provided info, recommendations and guidance to bring this to fruition. Ron
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:42 PM   #20
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Great to hear a success story and that you finally found a shop that knew what they were doing, as it appears many don't have a clue what it takes to put in the big springs.
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