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Old 01-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #1
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Default Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

I figured I would continue with the dual dump setup we are putting together here on the Tweaks section to keep it separated from what Peteco going on in another discussion.

As mentioned, the goal is a true dual dump system with minimal work to switch between the systems and without removing plugs, adding fittings, etc for an emergency gravity dump. Also there have come up some questions as to how the macerator should be mounted, and if the Roadtrek original mount could be improved to help durability of the pumps.

I finally got back to working on it after being a bit under the weather (again) for a while. Today was the first of the real dry fits to see if it all is really going to fit, and if there is anything I don't like, or that could be made better. The earlier stuff was measure and guess rough cuts.

I put the pump/gravity dump conversion subassembly together on the bench and got things roughly lined up. The pump is reversed from the original location to get the inlet to the modified pipe so the motor faces the passenger side, rather than the driver side. The pipe to the macerator inlet is plastic welded into the big pipe as low as it can go (be kind, it is the first time I have ever welded plastic in my life). When I put it in, I changed the new valve to point the other way to protect it better.





This shows the pump, which will hang upside down like the Roadtrek pump, but has had the motor end cap clocked to put the weep hole and inlet on the bottom where they belong (I think). If it wasn't clocked the seal leak drain would point up, like it does stock, and not drain leakage. It can also fill with dirt and road splash.



Here are pix from a bunch of hard to take angles, so not great, but hope you get the idea of where everything will sit.









The hose will go out at the driver side like a normal Roadtrek gravity dump. There is no room to slope and come out through the skirt, so the hole, in a carrier tube will hinge down when needed to get under the skirt with some slope to drain. Rough fit of the carrier tube in the down position and not shortened yet. That fit will be the last done after all the rest is working right.





I may still move the pump a couple of inches closer to the passenger side so the adapter is a bit shorter, but I need to make sure I can still get the grey tank valve cable past the new valve. The macerator outlet needs a tighter elbow for better clearance, it will go to the same pvc I had in place stock over to the side pod.

No onto supports for the pump and piping, a hinge for hose support, heat shielding, guards to protect from road debris. At least it looks like there really is enough room to make it work, but we will see how it turns out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg subass\'y bench 1.jpg (58.3 KB, 1111 views)
File Type: jpg subass\'y bench 2.jpg (60.0 KB, 1091 views)
File Type: jpg clocked pump.jpg (53.1 KB, 1089 views)
File Type: jpg under psg side.jpg (47.9 KB, 1091 views)
File Type: jpg drivers side.jpg (55.6 KB, 1090 views)
File Type: jpg pump side.jpg (54.5 KB, 1088 views)
File Type: jpg manual valve.jpg (51.2 KB, 1089 views)
File Type: jpg hose tube front.jpg (52.1 KB, 1089 views)
File Type: jpg hose tube rear.jpg (46.3 KB, 1091 views)
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Old 01-10-2015, 10:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

Looks great.

Had you considered using a wye take-off for the macerator leg, assuming one exists? That 90-degree bend might make it harder for "stuff" to make the turn into the macerator leg.

Pete
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Old 01-10-2015, 11:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by peteco
Looks great.

Had you considered using a wye take-off for the macerator leg, assuming one exists? That 90-degree bend might make it harder for "stuff" to make the turn into the macerator leg.

Pete
2006 Roadtrek 210 Popular
I did consider it, and even made a simple test prototype of it. You can see the test wye in the very first picture on the bench, in back of the subassembly. With the wye, everything just got too big for my liking. The pump moved way out away from the tank, and the extra valve with it, and it left less distance for the hinged tube for the gravity dump. It would have required more supports and covers, also. You need to use a 3" wye and then reduce, or you are not at the bottom of the main 3' tube. With the welded in tube, I could get right on the bottom with the smaller pipe. I do think it would be able to make work OK, though, if done, and if I hadn't bought the welder, I might be doing it right now.

If it was gravity feed, I wouldn't want to have the 90* turn in it like I have, but with the suction of the pump, I don't think there will be any issues. I think they say 5' of lift, which is substantial suction. It is good that by doing the 90*, I can get very close to the gravity dump added valve to clear that area, which may be good thing. That will be one of the things I want to see when I get it running, along with how much better it will clear the piping with the inlet on the bottom instead of the top.
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Old 01-11-2015, 01:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

Looks good. I'm impressed that you're already this far along.
For some reason I thought the add-on gravity dump would exit on the passenger side. Having it on the drivers side like stock pre-macerator Roadtreks had is great.
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Old 01-12-2015, 10:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

After another trip to Menards for parts, I got to do the final fitup on the pump and valves assembly. I did decide to move the pump over as far to the passenger side as I could, which worked out very nicely as it put the pump right under the frame rail. I happened to to have a leftover chunk of 1" aluminum plate from my days of making EFI manifold conversions and throttle body spacers, and it was just the right size besides, no cutting. It wasn't very square but that didn't matter for this piece. It works as the height spacer and mount for pump, which will mount with studs instead of bolts now. The mount attaches to the frame with 5 #14 self tapping screw with loctite and lockwashers. They recess in the mount to reduce the needed length and to be out of the way better.



On the frame



The moving the pump to the passenger side also allowed me to move it toward the valves a bit, also. I originally was going to use a single rubber coupling to the pump, but once it was in place there was room to use two of them. This makes it much easier to get into place and properly aligned without binding. Here is the pump assembly that will attach to the welded in stub on the main drain tube.



I removed the entire valve fitting and valves and replaced it with the new one I had gotten. I had to move the valve flanges from the original so it would fit, as well as move the cable actuator pieces because I cheaped out and bought a non cable valve one. Not hard to do as it turns out. When I put is all back in, it gave me a better chance to align and check road clearance on everything. I doesn't look like anything is any lower than the lowest point was stock, so that is good.

Right now the entire pump and valve area (except for the valve to the gravity dump) is essentially done and permanently mounted. Still needs wiring, discharge hooked up, and heatshields and road guards, but that will all come at the very end.





All and all, it is going better than expected to this point, but we will see how it goes with the rest of it, and if it actually works in the end.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pump mount-spacer.jpg (32.6 KB, 906 views)
File Type: jpg pump mount in place.jpg (54.5 KB, 909 views)
File Type: jpg pump assy.jpg (44.4 KB, 908 views)
File Type: jpg pump and valves done.jpg (56.4 KB, 908 views)
File Type: jpg subassy close.jpg (53.0 KB, 910 views)
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Old 01-17-2015, 09:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

A lot of the necessary parts showed up, so I tried to hook up the piping from the emergency dump valve to the outlet area. I had hoped to be able to use a hose tube leave the hose in it when stored, but there was no way to do that and not lose some road clearance or have a major low spot in the discharge piping. I went to plan B which was to use regular 3" pipe to the outlet area and a bayonet hose connection and cover at that point. Hose will need to store elsewhere. With this setup I was able to get some slope to the outlet.

The discharge is behind the valve control area of the drivers side skirt, with an access hole through the valve control panel. The hose when connected is on a 45* fitting and goes out under the skirt. The hole in the panel is for visibility to hook up and to reach through to do the connection after the hose is put under the skirt. Very easy to connect while high on the stands, hope it is as easy when it is on the ground. All 3 valve controls are just above the access hole.

From the passenger side under, with temp wiring-pump with discharge up



The dump connection from under drivers side,



Dump connection through the access hole



With dump hose on



Hose under skirt for dumping-controls without handles



Everything should be far enough along to do functional tests tomorrow. Valve cables are on and working, but grey one is too short (always was from factory) so it will need to be replaced.

If everything works OK, it will all come out and the heat shielding for the top put in. I think the stock stuff will fit pretty well. Then the stuff back in and the rest of the shielding and permanent hangers, guards, wiring, etc put in.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg done temp wired.jpg (61.8 KB, 824 views)
File Type: jpg hose connection under.jpg (45.4 KB, 822 views)
File Type: jpg connection through access.jpg (55.9 KB, 820 views)
File Type: jpg hose through access.jpg (57.4 KB, 820 views)
File Type: jpg hose on and contols.jpg (53.5 KB, 821 views)
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

That's the shizzle as the kids would say.
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanw909
That's the shizzle as the kids would say.
Glad you explained that one, as I would have thought shizzle would be more likely to come out of the hose

Just got in from doing the first real test of the setup, and all worked well. Can easily switch back and forth between systems and both empty the piping well. The gravity gets maybe a quart more than the pump, but we don't let it pump air for long. The indexed motor end to get the pump orientation seems to be fine. The pumped looked to be making full power and it pumped very well, getting out more of the water in the piping than it used to. I have one tiny leak in the plastic weld I made to put the pump inlet into the main pipe, no surprise there, but easy to fix when I have the pipe out.

Time to pull it out and finish up the loose ends and put it in for real. It will be nice to not have to worry about pump failure.
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

My oldest brother lived full time in his 40' Bounder with his wife before he passed away and told me the story of his macerator failing. He had the inline kind that had a bayonet fitting so he could change it himself and although he could close the blade valve it was still a quite messy. Having an alternative to the permanent mounted macerator seems like a no brainer. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Roadtrek 190P dual dump setup

I finally got a chance to get back at finishing off the last stuff on the dump system. Had to go to Discount Steel and get a sheet of .050" aluminum for the heat shields and splash shield, plus a few other things.

Here is a comparison of what Roadtrek does to the the pump to get the long distance jam fix rod in place. The Shurflo cover is sealed to keep water out of the motor.



Even with the remote rod in place there is plenty of room for water to get in. This faces the drivers side and is wide open, so if you wash the undercarriage like many do, you will shoot water right into the motor.



Here is a comparison of the inlet fittings on our new pump (180* port) and on the pump from Roadtrek (now indexed to be the same as the 180*). The hose barb has been removed on the new pump (simple hacksaw job) per the instructions from Shurflo. Roadtrek doesn't cut off theirs. If you don't remove the barb portion, you have added a lot of restriction to the inlet and provided a big place for "stuff" to accumulate.



I was able to reuse the Roadtrek upper heat shield by cutting a little off the front end of it. The back stayed the same to mount the new splash shield.



I had to add to the front of the heat shield in two pieces because of the exhaust pipe heights being different. The add on is screwed to the modified rear section.





The two added pieces needed at different heights required an angled step piece to close the area between them.



I will continue in a new post so I don't run out of pic allowance.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg done freeup compared.jpg (53.5 KB, 609 views)
File Type: jpg done Roadtrek freeup.jpg (45.7 KB, 609 views)
File Type: jpg done inlet end compared.jpg (57.5 KB, 609 views)
File Type: jpg done orig heat shield mod.jpg (51.0 KB, 610 views)
File Type: jpg done heat shield add on.jpg (47.9 KB, 608 views)
File Type: jpg done heat shield add on 2.jpg (57.5 KB, 608 views)
File Type: jpg done heat shield step.jpg (31.8 KB, 610 views)
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