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-   -   Is diesel dead? (http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5/is-diesel-dead-7593.html)

GeorgeRa 04-29-2018 04:11 PM

Is diesel dead?
 
“Is there still a future for the diesel engine? According to Bosch, the answer is yes—this week the German company announced it had made a breakthrough by combining a number of existing technologies, which means that modern turbodiesel engines can still make good power and deliver excellent fuel efficiencies. At the same time, Bosch says this combo will emit very low levels of dangerous nitrogen oxides (NOx)—in fact, the company says it can beat future European emissions regulations by 90 percent.”

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/04...nox-emissions/

booster 04-29-2018 04:40 PM

Interesting article, but pretty sketchy. Smaller displacement seems an odd way to improve very much, as they already chose displacement and combustion chamber shapes to maximize output and minimize emissions. Faster spooling turbos are normally a good thing, although they also normally limit the max output of the turbo at the same time, so balance is needed. Turbo stuff can be very hard to balance the fuel (and timing if gas) to match the driving profile of the turbo airflow, so it looks as if they are looking of more consistency with fewer air spikes and troughs, which can be pretty common in turbo setups.

The biggest thing that is likely helping them is probably the changes in the EGR setup, with them actually going to two stages of it apparently. If they have high and low pressure setups for EGR, they will be able to have exhaust recirculation with more of the varying pressures seen in the exhaust and intake sides. It can get tough to precisely control EGR when you have to deal with 0-2Bar on the intake and 0-3Bar on the exhaust, sides. Just guessing at their pressured, though.

The big concern might be that using more EGR could make the fuel contamination and plugging issues worse.

No mention of DEF, that I saw, though.

BBQ 04-29-2018 06:10 PM

.

The Wild Experimental Engine That Uses Gas and Diesel

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...sion-ignition/

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod...1524491226.jpg

gerrym51 04-29-2018 10:24 PM

until they come up with gasoline engines that can deliver the power and torque needed in BIG TRUCK loads and towing diesel is not dead.

I suspect it will be dead in cars and small trucks.

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 04-30-2018 05:48 PM

gerrym51 is absolutely correct......

RVs and especially trucks like the Sprinter diesel certainly need power and torque... they're not dead.

booster 04-30-2018 07:07 PM

Time will tell, but with the improvements of gas engine technology, I think it is very likely that gas could take over, unless some other source comes along.

Just look at the numbers for the twin turbo gas Ecoboost engines which have been designed to pull weight and load, like a turbo diesel, at lower rpm. I am sure there currently isn't enough market to justify a designing a semi truck size gas engine from scratch, but I do think it could be done.

Doneworking 04-30-2018 07:24 PM

It has always been dead for me :) .

Right now around where I live diesel is sixty cents a gallon more expensive than 87 octane gasoline. That's 26 % more for diesel. Plus, on a small motorhome, the initial purchase price is significantly greater - obviously more on some brands than others. Now, that being said, I know folks love their Sprinters and some get great service out of them and don't mind the extra cost of purchase and service and fuel (which certainly varies from location to location).

I suspect diesel will always be around and so will gasoline.....at least for the rest of my lifetime. My Chevy 6L in the Roadtrek takes me anywhere I want to go, carries a lot of cargo and has a towing capacity of over 7,000 pounds (but the hitch is rated less than that).

I never intend on buying a Class A but if I did I would, of course, want a diesel pusher. But I doubt it would do well in a 25 foot back in space in some beautiful National Forest campground.

It is marvelous that we have such choices on our Bs today as compared to a couple of decades ago and we can have a diesel if we want one and a gasser if we so desire.

Ain't that great????!! All Bs used to be just Dodge, Ford or Chevy vans tweaked and dressed up for Saturday night.

And PLEASE....I don't mean this post to start the old argument between diesel and gasoline. I just mean for some of us, perhaps many of us, diesels are not and have not been a consideration.

Paul

Roadtrek Adventuous RS1 04-30-2018 09:17 PM

Paul, I won't start any great debate about diesel vs. gas... And, I know that in 2019 Mercedes Benz is planning on releasing an electric Sprinter in Europe...We have a 2009 Toyota Prius... climbing through the Rocky Mountains..it barely reached the 11,000 foot summit.. went down to about 25 MPH..made it... BUT..it was slowly climbing.. I've been in mountainus areas with gas and now my turbo diesel...the gasoline engines have to work a little bit harder and rev more to climb steep mountain grades... diesel makes more low end torque... just a fact.

None of these are designed to be speed demons...and all have pros and cons... diesel is probably more expensive to purchase, maintain and right now purchase fuel.... BUT, as for running out of power.. that's NOT one of their problems...

I've got a friend with the same Chevy 6 litre engine and he loves it...

Finally, it's all about enjoying your rig..... So.... enjoy.....

avanti 04-30-2018 09:45 PM

Modern direct-injection gas engines with variable-geometry turbochargers, paired with many-geared (8 for more) electronically-controlled transmissions are a whole new ball game. These drivetrains are miraculous. They can be engineered for whatever load profile is required.

Moreover, between the VW scandal and the DEF reliability debacle, I believe that diesel's reputation is beyond repair. Diesel will hang on for a long time, but I doubt that anybody is going to invest R&D dollars in new-generation designs (beyond the current pipeline). The promise of all-electric trucks is the last nail in the coffin.

The Bosch article is a last ditch act of desperation.

BBQ 04-30-2018 09:48 PM

.

Diesel had never been a worthy consideration for Class B
until that "New" Dodge company canceled the old reliable
and imported the Sprinter as a replacement.

Then the market crashed and sucked the oxygen out of the RV market.

Then the RV upfitter discover a new niche --- ride on the Mercedes Coattail
and sell "premium$$$" RV to the wealthy folks.

All of a sudden diesel was in fashion.


Just my casual observation.


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