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-   -   zero breeze small air conditioner (http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5/zero-breeze-small-air-conditioner-9149.html)

gerrym51 05-06-2019 12:37 AM

zero breeze small air conditioner
 
does anyone have experience with this. It's 1100 btu's and it looks like it actually works.

again only 1100 btu's. it is NOT a swamp cooler

however in a small van with a couple of these might actually be effective. if just close up 2 people

remember in some ways you spend thousands of dollars just to get the ac you don't use often.

i've seen several videos on youtube about this. who knows

https://www.zerobreeze.com/collectio...12748365824102

Bruceper 05-07-2019 12:11 AM

$900US for 1100 BTU's? That's an insane price.

rowiebowie 05-07-2019 03:04 PM

You can't have too many btu's. I have a small class b that came from the factory with a 13.5K roof a/c which is already pretty large since most have 9K-11K. When I needed to replace it, the seller sent a 15K unit by mistake (same size and weight at the 13.5K unit).

My dilema was whether the 15K capacity would be too much. Based on advice from this and another forum, your dash air is anywhere from 20K-30K btu's so I kept the larger unit. Since the seller was willing to refund shipping, I installed the 15K.

It is quieter and uses 1 less amp than the old unit due to higher efficiency. I can report it is not too big. It can cool on even the hottest days (even though it still takes a while), yet it cycles off and on about like the old unit.

In conclusion, 1100 btu's should just be considered a nice cooling fan and not enough to cool an rv even minimally on any kind of hot day even if directly blowing on you. And at $900, that is more than I paid for the 15K btu Coleman Mach 8 Plus.
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PinIN 05-07-2019 03:19 PM

I think it more for the DIY van people with limited battery capacity, obviously it not going to cool the B interior of a class B.

I could see it being used in an enclosed sleeping area.

People spend $1k on tiny refrigerators so the price is inline with those buyers.

avanti 05-07-2019 03:30 PM

Actually, you can have too many BTUs. A too-big a/c will run too-infrequently to humidity effectively. An ideal setup would just barely run continuously.

Obviously we are nowhere near that here

RossWilliams 05-07-2019 06:34 PM

I think its cooling ability depends on both the size of the space to be cooled AND the amount of insulation. For instance, if your goal is to keep a pet safe in hot weather, it may well be enough to cool a kennel space.

rowiebowie 05-07-2019 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti (Post 93031)
Actually, you can have too many BTUs. A too-big a/c will run too-infrequently to humidity effectively. An ideal setup would just barely run continuously.

Obviously we are nowhere news that here

My point was a motor home does not act like a stick & brick house for which an a/c's capacity must be carefully matched to sq. ft., insulation, etc. in order to run enough to control humidity (in my part of the South, especially).

A motor home acts much more like a car due to solar heat gain through glass, poorer insulation, and body heat that adds to the interior warmth. Almost the instant your a/c dash air turns off, it starts to become warm. While a motor home isn't quite that bad, it is much closer to that than your home would be. And from my personal experience related in my first post, 15K in a tiny class b has not been a problem or seemed over-sized at all.

I don't think I've ever heard the complaint "Man, my dash air is just too cold." Thus far, I've not heard that complaint about motor home a/c either. Could it happen, sure, but it's unlikely. That's all I was saying. And I just don't think 1100 btu's would make enough difference to be worth considering, especially at that price.
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gerrym51 05-08-2019 12:29 AM

with the class b i had the air conditioner could be too cold because of where the thermostat was.

It wasn't until i realized running a fan on the floor at the same time pointed up equalized the air in the van.

things improved and the a/c worked better

gerrym51 05-08-2019 12:32 AM

this guy actually took it apart and seems knowledgeable

he also posted on article


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8R3Gqm0LDU

booster 05-08-2019 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowiebowie (Post 93039)
My point was a motor home does not act like a stick & brick house for which an a/c's capacity must be carefully matched to sq. ft., insulation, etc. in order to run enough to control humidity (in my part of the South, especially).

A motor home acts much more like a car due to solar heat gain through glass, poorer insulation, and body heat that adds to the interior warmth. Almost the instant your a/c dash air turns off, it starts to become warm. While a motor home isn't quite that bad, it is much closer to that than your home would be. And from my personal experience related in my first post, 15K in a tiny class b has not been a problem or seemed over-sized at all.

I don't think I've ever heard the complaint "Man, my dash air is just too cold." Thus far, I've not heard that complaint about motor home a/c either. Could it happen, sure, but it's unlikely. That's all I was saying. And I just don't think 1100 btu's would make enough difference to be worth considering, especially at that price.
.

We routinely turn up the temp control a little with the AC on in our Chevy Roadtrek, usually in high humidity, not extremely hot conditions. That way it runs more continuously by doesn't freeze us out of the front seats. We also will run it max AC in those conditions, or even dusty conditions, so it stays in recirc mode all the time.

JohnnyFry 05-08-2019 03:21 PM

It looks like a Peltier device with a fan blowing over it. Pretty pricy for something that is probably not much more effective than a fan for $30.

booster 05-08-2019 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyFry (Post 93058)
It looks like a Peltier device with a fan blowing over it. Pretty pricy for something that is probably not much more effective than a fan for $30.

I think the website said it was a mini compressor.

What my question would be is if it only has the one exhaust connection, as if it does it will be taking hot humid are someplace. Normally the condensers use all outside air so you can have no hot and humid coming in.

GeorgeRa 05-08-2019 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster (Post 93059)
I think the website said it was a mini compressor.

What my question would be is if it only has the one exhaust connection, as if it does it will be taking hot humid are someplace. Normally the condensers use all outside air so you can have no hot and humid coming in.

Exactly, not the best route for efficiency. This design could benefit from a single fan motor coaxially driving 2 fans, similarly to Eberspacher Airtronic D2/4.

gerrym51 05-08-2019 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa (Post 93064)
Exactly, not the best route for efficiency. This design could benefit from a single fan motor coaxially driving 2 fans, similarly to Eberspacher Airtronic D2/4.

isn't that a air heater not an air conditioner?

GeorgeRa 05-08-2019 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51 (Post 93075)
isn't that a air heater not an air conditioner?

It is air heater indeed, there is a single motor coaxially powering fans for combustion and recirculation air. See this video at 0:40 with 2 fans beginning to rotate powered by the single motor. The same concept could be used in the AC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewr7btulJ-w

gerrym51 05-08-2019 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa (Post 93077)
It is air heater indeed, there is a single motor coaxially powering fans for combustion and recirculation air. See this video at 0:40 with 2 fans beginning to rotate powered by the single motor. The same concept could be used in the AC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewr7btulJ-w

does this also have a compressor?

GeorgeRa 05-08-2019 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51 (Post 93082)
does this also have a compressor?

No, just one motor with 2 fans and diesel positive displacement pulse pump. One fan is pushing recirculating cabin air and the other one is pushing combustion air into the combustion chamber. Fan motor runs at 4 speeds pushing both air flows proportionally higher or lower at different RPMs.

In case of the discussed AC there could be one fan motor pushing air through condenser coil with the fan wheel on one end and through the evaporator coil with the fan wheel on the other end. This approach could reduce AC cost by one less motor and one less control. If the designer used cheep pancake fans than perhaps not. This one is similar to the compressor they used - https://www.coowor.com/p/20181102154...compressor.htm

gsm 05-09-2019 01:34 AM

I Bought a Zero Breeze To Experiment
 
The Zero Breeze is indeed a small 1,100 BTU A/C. It needs about 11 Ampere on 12 volt DC. Of course it has the limitation of doing only one-tenth or one-15th of the work of a full-size A/C. But as side product it runs for eight hours on 100 AH. I plan to Take advantage of this.

our intention is to create a cooler, but mainly dryer, minimalist Oasis over the bed-platform of our 2008 RT190P, when overnighting along the way, without shore power, and without the need to run the generator. We have made some preliminary tests.

When in use the Zero Breeze sits on the galley counter with its cool/dry air output port angled into the aisle toward the bed. The port for the air return flow over the evaporator is on the aisles side. I am using a 12 inch by 18 inch slice of 1/2-inch packing poly-foam (with the A/C's body cross-section cut out of it) as a vertical separator between the cool-airflow-path and the cooling path for the condenser section. The condenser section takes air in from both sides of the A/C and blows the warm air out the rear via a flexible three-inch duct. When expanded the outlet-duct is about 40-inches long and gets aimed upward to the MaxxAir roof-vent running at its lowest speed. I slight open the cab windows to complete the cooling air-loop for the condenser. The shower curtain pulled across the aisle and the open toilet door isolate the cool/dry and warm/humid areas from each other.

So far result have been promising, although we have not yet tested the arrangement under extreme conditions. We have 400AH of Lithium battery capacity, therefore, running the A/C in this manner several nights while traveling will not be a problem. We also have the option of a pre-cooldown/dry-up by running the RT A/C for an hour or so, either on inverter or ONAN.

I noted the discussion on using the conventional approach of moving condenser- and evaporator-air via a single motor. This is impossible on the layout of the Zero Breeze as the shaft would have to pass through the compressor. There really is not enough space. The single motor and long shaft approach is commonly used as an economy and space reduction measure. Also in the Zero Breeze the blower on the evaporator end has a shaft axis at right angles to this shaft-path.

There is an advantage to using independent blowers. The condenser section can be run at maximum practical blower-speed to remove a maximum of coolant-heat, while the evaporator air-speed can be reduced (three speeds in the case of the Zero Breeze) to keep the evaporator just at the dew-point. This ensures maximum humidity reduction. Lower noise is a side-benefit.

I hope this helps. Any questions? I need suggestions.

Gerard M.

gsm 05-09-2019 01:54 AM

I Bought a Zero Breeze to Experiment
 
A bit more information I should have mentioned.

The water/condensate outflow connection falls directly over the galley sink. The outflow could be allowed to go into the grey tank, but we catch it in a basin and dump it as it is clean water. To ease the condensate outflow we raise the other via a six-inch piece of 2x4 lying flat.

Gerard M.

rowiebowie 05-09-2019 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsm (Post 93098)
our intention is to create a cooler, but mainly dryer, minimalist Oasis over the bed-platform of our 2008 RT190P, when overnighting along the way, without shore power, and without the need to run the generator. We have made some preliminary tests.

Gerard, good to hear it helps "just enough" to make things more comfortable. Your application makes sense.
.


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