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Old 02-23-2017, 11:27 AM   #1
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Default Future charging systems

Even though we have a large engine charging system in our Roadtrek, I have always looked at them as a bridge until something more practical comes along, better than an Onan, but not ideal. Low rate continuous charging, IMO, would appear to be a much better way to go. It would require smaller everything, from wiring power handling items, to less battery capacity.

All energy is really heat based, so heat also seems like a logical source of the power for an 12v DC source, and vehicles have heat available from fuel if they have gas, diesel, or propane on board.

I often randomly do different search terms for stuff I am interested in like the small power generation mentioned, and I ran across this technical paper. Interesting because it generates electrical power without moving parts, kind of like solar, except for the fact they have a tiny combustion fan on the sample design.

http://jxcrystals.com/publications/2...er%20TPV-9.pdf

10% heat to electricity conversion efficiency is probably not all that bad compared to a conventional generator, but likely a bit lower.

An item like this is it did a continuous 120 watts would give you 240ah per day, which is more than all but the very big power users among us would ever need. We could easily get by on 1/2 of that much, so only 3 times bigger than the unit described in the paper. By running continuously to replace used power and/or currently used power, you would need much less battery capacity, probably no more than enough to cover 1 days use. They would also be near to full or full for large amounts of the time, I think, which would be a big benefit for lead acid batteries, either wet or AGM.

I thought it was very interesting that they specifically mentioned the unit, with fuel container, would have a much higher power capacity to weight ratio than lithium batteries. They did not compare to a standard fuel powered generator, however.

I could very easily see a class b with a 100 watt module of this type of generator, maybe 300 watts of solar, and 200ah of batteries (more if you used high rate appliances a lot). No Onan, no engine generator, and no noise, all while being totally silent and unobtrusive, and able to stay offgrid, with no driving, for as long as you had fuel for the unit.

The future is coming......as they say
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Old 02-24-2017, 02:23 AM   #2
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Micro Nuclear - got to be in the future.
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Old 02-25-2017, 03:45 AM   #3
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EFOY would do that. Fuel unobtanium and fuel expense was the downside.
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Old 02-25-2017, 04:00 AM   #4
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EFOY would do that. Fuel unobtanium and fuel expense was the downside.
What the combustion fuel would be was one of the glaring missing things in the article, I think. They talked about a fuel canister, so might be something as simple as a propane tank, or it could be as yet undetermined as this is a pretty early, theoretical, design paper.

It is interesting that when I went looking for more information on this kind of generator, I found a lot more on other versions of the idea. They are working on solar panel stuff that will generate power from the IR and UV parts of the spectrum, so if combined with a regular solar panel they could get more power out of the same light.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:16 AM   #5
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Several thousand degrees is a bit much for an RV, doncha think?
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:54 AM   #6
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Several thousand degrees is a bit much for an RV, doncha think?
Furnace flame, stove burner, combustion in Onan all can easily be that hot also, the device just needs to be designed to handle the temperature and safely get rid of the exhaust.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:47 AM   #7
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I'm thinking of buying an ELECTRIC tandem bicycle and taking it with us and using the roadtrek to take to bikepaths

the Pedego Tandem is what we are looking at

https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/...andem-cruiser/
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:53 PM   #8
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That looks a lot more like a power user than a future power generator

I would think that if you don't have shore power, the recharging would be quite a hit on your coach batteries. Looks like the battery options would take 40 or 60ah at 12v plus charging inefficiencies of and inverter to 110v and then a charger back to 48 volts.

82# is a hefty amount of bicycle, so it is a good thing it has a motor, I think
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:37 PM   #9
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That looks a lot more like a power user than a future power generator

I would think that if you don't have shore power, the recharging would be quite a hit on your coach batteries. Looks like the battery options would take 40 or 60ah at 12v plus charging inefficiencies of and inverter to 110v and then a charger back to 48 volts.

82# is a hefty amount of bicycle, so it is a good thing it has a motor, I think
My wife has 2 knee replacements and somewhat painful legs. this is equal to 2 bikes.

this bike can go entirely on electric power. no pumping at all is needed(as long as the battery is good) we are going to test it out at a dealer.

it's either this or no bike riding for both of us -just me alone. it's the best option for us. i did not even know it existed before 2 weeks ago.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
I'm thinking of buying an ELECTRIC tandem bicycle and taking it with us and using the roadtrek to take to bikepaths

the Pedego Tandem is what we are looking at

https://www.pedegoelectricbikes.com/...andem-cruiser/

Hi, I've been semi-researching e bikes for me alone for awhile. I just ordered one this week and may have it Tuesday. It has 50% more power than the one you cited with an 11.6 amp battery, 48 volts. Yours said an option of 10 or 15 amps.

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/radmini

But this e bike stuff is just like a B rv, determined by application. Mine is to not pedal, very very little. I tentatively plan to carry it folded on a swing out hitch frame arriving soon too. Then very simple and easy to access the rear doors as usual. Spare remains on an 05/04 Roadtrek 190P.

Wishing you the best with an e bike, go for it. Or motorcycle? jet ski, snowmobile, .........

Bud
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:50 PM   #11
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Hi, I've been semi-researching e bikes for me alone for awhile. I just ordered one this week and may have it Tuesday. It has 50% more power than the one you cited with an 11.6 amp battery, 48 volts. Yours said an option of 10 or 15 amps.

https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/radmini

But this e bike stuff is just like a B rv, determined by application. Mine is to not pedal, very very little. I tentatively plan to carry it folded on a swing out hitch frame arriving soon too. Then very simple and easy to access the rear doors as usual. Spare remains on an 05/04 Roadtrek 190P.

Wishing you the best with an e bike, go for it. Or motorcycle? jet ski, snowmobile, .........

Bud
until 2 weeks ago i knew nothing about electric bikes-now i find there are far more and more variations than i knew existed. I had started out researching just tandem bikes in general figuring i'd be supplying most of the power because of my wifes physical condition- and then the world of electric bikes was discovered. If it was only myself my choice would be different.

However if i don't get the tandem then i've already excluded her-which i don't want to de. Fortunatly i have 3 Pedago stores within 90 minutes of me-and I live in Massachusetts not California. they give free test rides and also rent for hours on end. We will try this first and see how she likes it.

I have the perfect B for transporting it inside the van. As it turns out i have the only b van that could-and i did not plan it that way when i bought my van 2 years ago

I hope your electric bike works out for you
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:14 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
until 2 weeks ago i knew nothing about electric bikes-now i find there are far more and more variations than i knew existed. I had started out researching just tandem bikes in general figuring i'd be supplying most of the power because of my wifes physical condition- and then the world of electric bikes was discovered. If it was only myself my choice would be different.

However if i don't get the tandem then i've already excluded her-which i don't want to de. Fortunatly i have 3 Pedago stores within 90 minutes of me-and I live in Massachusetts not California. they give free test rides and also rent for hours on end. We will try this first and see how she likes it.

I have the perfect B for transporting it inside the van. As it turns out i have the only b van that could-and i did not plan it that way when i bought my van 2 years ago

I hope your electric bike works out for you

You're going to actually experience one! I don't really have much in my area. I think that the tandem e bike is a terrific idea you stumbled on, good for you two.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:22 PM   #13
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in my electric bike search i stumbled onto this



Electric Bicycles and RVs €“ The Perfect Match! - EVELO


I guess we've hijacked Boosters thread. Sorry Boost
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:28 PM   #14
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in my electric bike search i stumbled onto this



Electric Bicycles and RVs – The Perfect Match! - EVELO


I guess we've hijacked Boosters thread. Sorry Boost
Hey, that link may very well result in an e bike purchase by a member of this forum.
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Old 02-26-2017, 04:44 PM   #15
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Hey, that link may very well result in an e bike purchase by a member of this forum.
Or not-lol
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:24 PM   #16
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On mismatched tandem riders, for whatever reason, I have seen special built stuff that not only had the normal different crank arm lengths front and rear, but also different gearing so on or the other could pedal slower than the other. I have also heard of, but not seen, of them with a freewheel in the rear crank, so that person could actually quit pedaling if they needed to. All excellent ideas, I think, and might be even more useful in the electric, so one could pedal, and one not, much of the time.
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:33 PM   #17
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On mismatched tandem riders, for whatever reason, I have seen special built stuff that not only had the normal different crank arm lengths front and rear, but also different gearing so on or the other could pedal slower than the other. I have also heard of, but not seen, of them with a freewheel in the rear crank, so that person could actually quit pedaling if they needed to. All excellent ideas, I think, and might be even more useful in the electric, so one could pedal, and one not, much of the time.
Davinci is the one that makes mismatched gearing. However we still need electric. I'm not doing all the work if i don't have to.

I watched 2 youtube videos of a couple doing philadelphia and new orleans with neither one pedaling on the Pedego tandem. the battery lasts less time but it is an option.

Pedego makes bikes mostly for old folks like us.
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:38 PM   #18
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I was referring to how the list of possibilities would be very applicable to an electric, especially if one of the riders was much less capable than the other. Some have trouble just spinning the pedals, so the freewheel crankset would be really nice for them.
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Old 02-27-2017, 07:02 PM   #19
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This appears to be a really neat idea. At 10% conversion efficiency you would need about a 2kW unit to get 200W so it would use propane at about a gallon every 13 hours, not too shabby. (~94000 BTU/gallon for propane 2kW would need ~6,800BTU/hour). You could conceivably use remaining waste heat to heat water ang cabin interior in winter. Certainly a winner...wonder it it will be here in my lifetime!
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