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Old 11-18-2019, 03:06 AM   #21
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Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:29 AM   #22
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Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:50 PM   #23
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I am less worried about charging, for the reasons you state. That can always be worked around. I am worried about the batteries freezing and being damaged in really frigid weather.
According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:01 PM   #24
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Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
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No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.

Based on the way people like Volta are writing some of the cold storage temps, I think it is likely that the cold damage from colder that allowed temps would not be a quick and total failure. I say this because of the "no longer than X time below Y temperature" with times that are longer than the just thermal mass delay would indicate.



I think I would compare it to the high temperature damage like Fitrv got with their first set of lithium batteries which didn't instantly kill them be did pretty severely shorten their life.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:19 PM   #25
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According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
Are your batteries the new LiMgFePO4 chemistry? As far as I know, they are the only lithium batteries that are spec'd to survive at those temperatures.

If so, then I agree. If those specs hold up (and I have no reason to think they won't), then problem solved. If I do ever switch to lithium, that is the only current chemistry I would consider. DavyDD is getting them in his new van, IIRC.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:37 PM   #26
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I think LithiumWerks purchased Valence batteries and I can't find it in there specs as I think they might have changed them and there is no mention of storage temperatures that I can find. ARV put out this white paper on their battery systems where they mention a max of 122F down to a minimum of -40F storage temperatures for the Valence LiFeMgPO4 batteries.

https://advanced-rv.com/wp-content/u...hite-Paper.pdf
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:53 PM   #27
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Yes. Get the awning. Then Park where the afternoon sun is going to give you the most shade. Summer is hot and the shade really helped us in August. It gave the pups somewhere outside to hang out.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:04 PM   #28
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No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.
Not an experiment. Just battery owners with lithium-ion batteries of which there are more and more. Are there stories out there where people claim to have destroyed their batteries because of cold storage temperatures? I haven't read of any and probably have paid more attention to monitor than the average.

I know ARV has many fail safes to prevent it and I have said before an available 120V 15A AC outlet was all you would need for storage. That's not an exotic requirement and I imagine anyone with a single family home has one available. Apartment and condo dwellers might not and I suspect they would take care of it off-site as I have. And off course, I would think anyone purchasing a $100,000 and above Class B would have some common sense to arrange and take care of their batteries.

Most lithium battery systems are now installed inside the controlled temperature van and the below freezing charging is not an issue underway. Older Roadtreks and my ARV are outside but mine never go below 41 degrees. Few camp in cold weather anyway. And again, if so, owner's awareness and common sense will take care of it.

ARV installs the Volta system inside the van as well as their Valence system. I don't know if anyone is buying the under floor Elite system from them. Winnebago and Pleasure-way install inside. Who knows what the re-startup Roadtrek will do. If Rapido thinks they are just going to install the old "proprietary" Etreks as before they will not be anymore successful than Hymer I fear.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:13 PM   #29
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And off course, I would think anyone purchasing a $100,000 and above Class B would have some common sense to arrange and take care of their batteries.
That is exactly my point. The "experiment" would be to ignore the care requirements and just see what happens. I was trying to say that not very many people are likely to have tried this, so we would expect few or no failures.

I do, however, think you underestimate the number of vans that are stored without access to shore power. I am an example, and I don't want to change. My ONLY point is that anyone in this situation needs to think twice before jumping into lithium.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:32 PM   #30
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Does one "experiment" when told ahead of time fatal damage will occur? Get real. I am talking about anyone who accidentally froze their batteries. You said "no" to that which means it is not the issue you make it out to be.

I don't underestimate. I know people store without power. There are several storage yards all over with RVs. You can do that with AGM batteries as they have no temperature limits so it is done. But you don't know how many also remove or have to remove the batteries and store them in a climate controlled space because power doesn't last as long as lithiums. I also know many people plug in for convenience at their homes to be able to use and go in and out of their RVs. You are a rare person who does not have an AC outlet available if you store at home.

On the other hand, I've known many people with AGMs and wet cell lead-acid batteries who had batteries lasting less than a year because many up-fitters didn't provide smart charging or safeguards from completely draining batteries.

Lithiums are not for everyone. You can make a strong economic case for AGMs up to about 400ah in a Class B. After that, space and weight become a liability or an impossibility in a great many Class Bs. I think the Great West Van Legend was the only van that you could get drop-in AGM batteries up to about 400ah capacity that you could easily get to without sacrificing a great amount of interior space for other things like storage. You are fast becoming a unique case.

Cost is a barrier for many and as I said if you pay $100,000+ for an RV, I think most people have enough common sense to figure things out ahead of time if buying lithium-ion batteries. However, the up-fitters have to sell a lifestyle for B users and that is increasingly, independent touring and going anywhere and not just the traditional plug in shore power campgrounds. They will increasingly have to sell that to differentiate from other RV types. As I have said for 5 years electrical transparency in operating a B the same anywhere is pretty nice. You can achieve that better with lithium-ion without the baggage of propane and Onan generators.

Battleborn and other lithium battery companies are making a big push for drop-in batteries to directly replace lead-acid. Mike Wendland's RVLifestyle.com is preaching to over 750,000 RVers with that pitch as well as many other blogging "ambassadors." I have no idea what safeguards those companies have or what they say for storage.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:06 PM   #31
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According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
Rats: I've misinformed you. I can discharge down to -4F, then it shuts itself off. (That's internal battery temp, not the ambient temp) I recorded what it can stand when it is shut off but I can't read my writing. Slap up-side the head
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