Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-18-2019, 03:06 AM   #21
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,963
Default

Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 03:29 AM   #22
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd View Post
Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 12:50 PM   #23
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: MI
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
I am less worried about charging, for the reasons you state. That can always be worked around. I am worried about the batteries freezing and being damaged in really frigid weather.
According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
jaak1993 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 01:01 PM   #24
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11,914
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd View Post
Has anyone heard of any RVer having permanently damaged his/her lithium-ion batteries because of freezing weather?
Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.

Based on the way people like Volta are writing some of the cold storage temps, I think it is likely that the cold damage from colder that allowed temps would not be a quick and total failure. I say this because of the "no longer than X time below Y temperature" with times that are longer than the just thermal mass delay would indicate.



I think I would compare it to the high temperature damage like Fitrv got with their first set of lithium batteries which didn't instantly kill them be did pretty severely shorten their life.
booster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 01:19 PM   #25
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaak1993 View Post
According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
Are your batteries the new LiMgFePO4 chemistry? As far as I know, they are the only lithium batteries that are spec'd to survive at those temperatures.

If so, then I agree. If those specs hold up (and I have no reason to think they won't), then problem solved. If I do ever switch to lithium, that is the only current chemistry I would consider. DavyDD is getting them in his new van, IIRC.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 02:37 PM   #26
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,963
Default

I think LithiumWerks purchased Valence batteries and I can't find it in there specs as I think they might have changed them and there is no mention of storage temperatures that I can find. ARV put out this white paper on their battery systems where they mention a max of 122F down to a minimum of -40F storage temperatures for the Valence LiFeMgPO4 batteries.

https://advanced-rv.com/wp-content/u...hite-Paper.pdf
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 02:53 PM   #27
New Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: CA - California
Posts: 7
Default

Yes. Get the awning. Then Park where the afternoon sun is going to give you the most shade. Summer is hot and the shade really helped us in August. It gave the pups somewhere outside to hang out.
__________________
Dena LovetooTravel
lovetotravel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 03:04 PM   #28
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,963
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post
No. But I doubt that very many have done the experiment.
Not an experiment. Just battery owners with lithium-ion batteries of which there are more and more. Are there stories out there where people claim to have destroyed their batteries because of cold storage temperatures? I haven't read of any and probably have paid more attention to monitor than the average.

I know ARV has many fail safes to prevent it and I have said before an available 120V 15A AC outlet was all you would need for storage. That's not an exotic requirement and I imagine anyone with a single family home has one available. Apartment and condo dwellers might not and I suspect they would take care of it off-site as I have. And off course, I would think anyone purchasing a $100,000 and above Class B would have some common sense to arrange and take care of their batteries.

Most lithium battery systems are now installed inside the controlled temperature van and the below freezing charging is not an issue underway. Older Roadtreks and my ARV are outside but mine never go below 41 degrees. Few camp in cold weather anyway. And again, if so, owner's awareness and common sense will take care of it.

ARV installs the Volta system inside the van as well as their Valence system. I don't know if anyone is buying the under floor Elite system from them. Winnebago and Pleasure-way install inside. Who knows what the re-startup Roadtrek will do. If Rapido thinks they are just going to install the old "proprietary" Etreks as before they will not be anymore successful than Hymer I fear.
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 03:13 PM   #29
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,321
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd View Post
And off course, I would think anyone purchasing a $100,000 and above Class B would have some common sense to arrange and take care of their batteries.
That is exactly my point. The "experiment" would be to ignore the care requirements and just see what happens. I was trying to say that not very many people are likely to have tried this, so we would expect few or no failures.

I do, however, think you underestimate the number of vans that are stored without access to shore power. I am an example, and I don't want to change. My ONLY point is that anyone in this situation needs to think twice before jumping into lithium.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 07:32 PM   #30
Platinum Member
 
Davydd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,963
Default

Does one "experiment" when told ahead of time fatal damage will occur? Get real. I am talking about anyone who accidentally froze their batteries. You said "no" to that which means it is not the issue you make it out to be.

I don't underestimate. I know people store without power. There are several storage yards all over with RVs. You can do that with AGM batteries as they have no temperature limits so it is done. But you don't know how many also remove or have to remove the batteries and store them in a climate controlled space because power doesn't last as long as lithiums. I also know many people plug in for convenience at their homes to be able to use and go in and out of their RVs. You are a rare person who does not have an AC outlet available if you store at home.

On the other hand, I've known many people with AGMs and wet cell lead-acid batteries who had batteries lasting less than a year because many up-fitters didn't provide smart charging or safeguards from completely draining batteries.

Lithiums are not for everyone. You can make a strong economic case for AGMs up to about 400ah in a Class B. After that, space and weight become a liability or an impossibility in a great many Class Bs. I think the Great West Van Legend was the only van that you could get drop-in AGM batteries up to about 400ah capacity that you could easily get to without sacrificing a great amount of interior space for other things like storage. You are fast becoming a unique case.

Cost is a barrier for many and as I said if you pay $100,000+ for an RV, I think most people have enough common sense to figure things out ahead of time if buying lithium-ion batteries. However, the up-fitters have to sell a lifestyle for B users and that is increasingly, independent touring and going anywhere and not just the traditional plug in shore power campgrounds. They will increasingly have to sell that to differentiate from other RV types. As I have said for 5 years electrical transparency in operating a B the same anywhere is pretty nice. You can achieve that better with lithium-ion without the baggage of propane and Onan generators.

Battleborn and other lithium battery companies are making a big push for drop-in batteries to directly replace lead-acid. Mike Wendland's RVLifestyle.com is preaching to over 750,000 RVers with that pitch as well as many other blogging "ambassadors." I have no idea what safeguards those companies have or what they say for storage.
__________________
Davydd
2021 Advanced RV 144 custom Sprinter
2015 Advanced RV Extended body Sprinter
2011 Great West Van Legend Sprinter
2005 Pleasure-way Plateau TS Sprinter
Davydd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2019, 11:06 PM   #31
Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: MI
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaak1993 View Post
According to my battery supplier, mine are good down to -40 degrees (C or F). I'm very much in the wrong place if that happens, probably very much dead myself.
Rats: I've misinformed you. I can discharge down to -4F, then it shuts itself off. (That's internal battery temp, not the ambient temp) I recorded what it can stand when it is shut off but I can't read my writing. Slap up-side the head
jaak1993 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
class b resale, feedback, new purchase, options

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.