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Old 10-31-2016, 04:49 PM   #1
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Default 2017 Winnebago Paseo video

Just saw the link to the 2017 Winnebago Paseo video on RV Business: VIDEO 1: Winnebago’s All-New 2017 Paseo B-Van | RV Business

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Old 10-31-2016, 05:41 PM   #2
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Just watched it. Russ did a great job showing it. That ladder is awesome. I didn't see any exterior storage but that is typical with the new Euro style vans. The Paseo looks to have easily accessible storage for outdoor stuff just inside the rear doors.

The possible four season usefulness will appeal to some buyers.

I think the Transit as a Class B looks pretty good too; better than I thought when I first saw cargo Transits on the road. The RV stuff like the awning, roof mounted air and ladder etc. all come together to give it a good look.

Does anyone know if only one seat up front swivels?

Here's a fun virtual 3D tour of the Winnebago Paseo: https://my.matterport.com/show/?m=sVEfK6dnJJ5
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Old 10-31-2016, 07:12 PM   #3
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word is that the drivers seat does not swivel.
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Old 10-31-2016, 07:34 PM   #4
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In the current design, the parking brake handle interferes with putting in a seat swivel on the driver's seat. Some DIY builders have moved the handle lower to allow installation of a swivel.
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Old 11-01-2016, 12:37 AM   #5
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Am I missing something, or is this van only for shorter people? If the side to side bed is only 72", where does someone who is 6 foot or taller sleep? And if the 6 foot tall person sleeps front to back, where does a 2nd person sleep? Seems like the bench on the driver's side would be way too short. Other than that (which would totally rule the Paseo out for us) it looks like a nice van. It's much better looking than the cargo Transits I see on the road.
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Old 11-01-2016, 02:37 AM   #6
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Just saw the link to the 2017 Winnebaga Paseo video on RV Business: VIDEO 1: Winnebago’s All-New 2017 Paseo B-Van | RV Business
Very interesting video that presents how the van is made. Russ Garfin is very convincing. Love the cavernous van before the build. Looks like it's very well built. Lots of molded interior panels.

I also feel the small bed is a deal breaker for a lot of customers. I hate the look of the cabinetry, too heavy visually, said it before, but like the fact that they used sliding doors for the upper cabinets. I find it's the most practical way to access upper storage in a tight space. We have these in our van.

The bathroom seems roomy and functional, it's my favorite component of the camper's interior design

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Old 11-01-2016, 03:21 AM   #7
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I have to say that I am impressed. If I were in the market for a larger rig, it ticks many of my boxes. Big compressor fridge with decent sized freezer. Easy to have a full time bed for a single traveler - leaving a lounging area.

I do think it needs more solar... and an underhood generator rather than the horrid Onan would be perfect.
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Old 11-01-2016, 01:28 PM   #8
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FitRV did a livestream walkthru a while back. Showed many of the details.

WGO has altered their production line to add the Paseo product, so I suspect they are committed to this for a few years at least to see how the product takes off.

If history is any guide, there will be other floorplans. Also what comes in round 2 is generally better thought out and includes customer feedback, so I look forward to whatever additional layouts they come up with.

My feedback is that the price is too high - by about $10k on MSRP. The interior finishes do not justify a price this close to Era, which looks much higher end in comparison.

I like many of the individual features, but I can't get past the goofy proportions of the Transit van, nor the terrible highway driving dynamics with that long rear overhang.

FWIW, Russ is probably the nicest and most honest person you'll meet in the RV industry. I hope he ends up running WGO some day.
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Old 11-01-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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With the push to the larger compressor frigs, I would think that the manufacturers are going to have to start adding more battery capacity options. I would guess many are now using over 50 amp hours per day just on the frig, and probably 75-100 ah total per day. A typical two AGM setup of about 200ah could be limited to one day without additional power, if you believe the 50% rule, or barely 1.5 days if you don't. Solar can help, but not so much if you like shade or live in cloudy northern areas. Of course, maybe it will motivate them to come up with the quite, decent capacity, non driving, charging source we all hope for
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Old 11-01-2016, 02:12 PM   #10
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Solar should be a requirement on that rig, not an option. Would be interested to know the amp draw on that fridge - my guess would be 5-7 amps. A 4 battery setup would definately be better though. Don't hold your breath waiting on WGO to put in lithiums.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:00 PM   #11
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My feedback is that the price is too high - by about $10k on MSRP.

There is probably about a $6000 difference in the price of those 2 vans (Sprinter vs Transit) which is pretty close to the difference in the MSRP of the ERA and Paseo (about $7000). It doesn't seem realistic to expect an additional $10k price difference. The Transits just aren't that much cheaper.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:03 PM   #12
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A factory installed 2000W inverter like what Pleasure-Way has would be a nice addition.

400 AH of AGM batteries also much better with the compressor fridge as noted especially for those that will camp in the shade.

I'm sure there are potential customers (like me) who don't want or see much need for a separate underhood generator/aux alternator or an Onan. I do like to run the microwave oven, toaster or a coffee maker etc. without needing to start any type of engine for power. I first had the ability to do that more than a decade ago now so it is surprising to me that it isn't a standard feature yet.

It's very unlikely I'd ever idle an engine for hours to cool an RV. My rig has had the capability to do that for the last 4 years but I have never done that on a trip. My preference is to find a campground and plug in if A/C cooling is a must. I did run an Onan for air conditioning once but that was because mosquitoes upon return to the no hookup campground near Crater Lake forced us inside the hot coach after being out all day.

I like to keep the AGM's in the RV fully charged so I have run the van engine to power the microwave oven if around lunch or dinner time. In the morning I don't bother starting the engine and instead just draw power from the batteries.

Other brands with inverters:

Hymer/Roadtrek and Advanced RV offer higher power inverters.
Pleasure-way offers a 2,000 watt PSW inverter.
Safari Condo lists a 1,500 watt PSW inverter.
New West offers a 1,500 watt inverter on their Ford Transit and a 2,000 watt inverter on their Sprinter model - https://www.new-west.com/eng/
5-Mars lists a 2,000 watt inverter on their Promaster based Ispiration model - INSPIRATION.
Gala RV Montecarlo listed a 2,000 watt PSW inverter on their Promaster model.
Avion Azur lists a 2,000 watt inverter.
Looks like Chinook lists a 3,000 watt inverter.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:35 PM   #13
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I like to keep the AGM's in the RV fully charged so I have run the van engine to power the microwave oven if around lunch or dinner time. In the morning I don't bother starting the engine and instead just draw power from the batteries.
I think this is a very overlooked item in the big scheme of RV power use and battery care. We do very much the same as Marko does. We also try to be very considerate of whomever happens to be around us, and the Chevy is very quiet at idle.

Take a scenario of running the microwave or hairdryer long enough to use 25ah of battery capacity in a 400ah bank (about 6% of capacity, maybe 15 minutes). If your batteries are at 90% when you use the power, and have the engine running to cover the use, you will have run the engine the 15 minutes of use and your batteries are still at 90%.

If you do the same 25ah use from the at 90%, and then recover that 6% later by running the engine a little while later, it might take well over 2 hours to recover the 6%, so way better to cover the use with the engine and save a lot of run time.

If you are under about 70% state of charge when you do all this, it doesn't matter when you recharge because the batteries will accept the 100 or amps your load was and the recharge of the 6% takes the same time as if the engine was running at the use.

Boaters have figured this out and that is why the run their batteries in the 30-80% SOC range. They can't justify running the generator or engine enough to top off the batteries. They also rarely have shore power. Solar to finish off the charge is big for them to top off, just like it can be for those of us who use it to top after a drive that doesn't fill the batteries completely.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:59 PM   #14
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The 12v NovaKool compressor refrigerator is probably going to draw on an average about 4 amps. That is about 96ah draw off the battery in a day. 100 watts of solar will be a minor contributor providing about 30 amp-hours per day and I find that questionable in the winter-fall-spring low sun angle short days. My opinion is most companies are treating solar as a token sale feature and not trying to answer a need. They definitely need more battery.

Cross sleeping is a definite put off. Seat belts in a side seating position is highly questionable safety point. The table is too big, IMO, and is that size because it is doing double duty as a filler. They need to rethink their bed strategy.

Other than those things I think it can be a successful van with more potential than the Promasters. As they say, it hits the sweet spot.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:16 PM   #15
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Agree with Davydd on all his points. Would have to do a table alteration to lessen the size a bit, and figure out a better sleeping configuration. Otherwise like the setup.
Haven't seen one in the flesh yet. It does hit the sweet spot in size...
Pricing? It's sitting right at the price point, (street price), as our 2013 ERA 70A was in early 2013
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:09 PM   #16
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100 watts of solar will be a minor contributor providing about 30 amp-hours per day and I find that questionable in the winter-fall-spring low sun angle short days. My opinion is most companies are treating solar as a token sale feature and not trying to answer a need.
As I see it, the need that 100 watts of solar answers is AGM battery health, as per Booster's comment above. Admittedly, this does not tend to be the reason told to the buyer (that would be a long discussion), but it is valid and important--both when camping and during outdoor storage.
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Old 11-02-2016, 12:30 AM   #17
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Quote:
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...
I like many of the individual features, but I can't get past the goofy proportions of the Transit van, nor the terrible highway driving dynamics with that long rear overhang.
...
I need to take issue with this statement.
It does NOT have "terrible highway driving dynamics".
I'm in the later stages of completing my own Transit based DIY build (see anniebuild.blogspot.com)
It is the same extended length high roof EB model as the Paseo (but in a SRW rear end).
It handles just fine on freeway, twisty country roads, and Forest Service dirt roads.
Having driven some Sprinters and a couple of Promasters, I'd say its handling is generally superior to either of those two alternates.

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Old 11-02-2016, 01:22 AM   #18
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I need to take issue with this statement.
It does NOT have "terrible highway driving dynamics".
I'm in the later stages of completing my own Transit based DIY build (see anniebuild.blogspot.com)
It is the same extended length high roof EB model as the Paseo (but in a SRW rear end).
It handles just fine on freeway, twisty country roads, and Forest Service dirt roads.
Having driven some Sprinters and a couple of Promasters, I'd say its handling is generally superior to either of those two alternates.

Stan
Yes, the consensus from people who have driven the Transit is that the ride and handling is superior to the others.
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Old 11-02-2016, 03:09 AM   #19
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Having driven all versions of the Transit van, I can say it handles with the best of them
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