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Old 09-11-2021, 02:51 AM   #1
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Default Design for maintainability, or not.

Someone posted this picture of water pump placement in their Winnebago B/C on the Sprinter forum. Is this an example of Winnebago design for maintainability? The cost of pump replacement could be high.
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Old 09-11-2021, 11:49 AM   #2
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Someone posted this picture of water pump placement in their Winnebago B/C on the Sprinter forum. Is this an example of Winnebago design for maintainability? The cost of pump replacement could be high.

Nothing really surprising to see stuff like that these days. Nearly all mass produced items are "designed for manufacturing" which can be a very good thing for manufacturers but sometimes be bad for the customers in the long run. The auto manufacturers are the worst, I think. Take out the whole dash to replace a common wear item (heater core), take out the engine to change the oil (some sports cars), take out the lower control arm from the suspension to change a motor mount (my 96 Buick), and the list goes on and on.



I was in on a lot of the design for manufacturing stuff even before it was called anything because my jobs almost always evolved to large amounts of production support and improvements where design can easily make the difference between profit and loss on a product. Some companies made sure serviceability was put into that process, but many did not, making the choice to only worry about the bottom line.


I am an engineer and probably bad mouth them for unserviceable designs as much, or more, than anyone else does. IMO it is a big problem in general and an be very costly to the customers.
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Old 09-11-2021, 07:30 PM   #3
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I hear you; I was fortunate working for the company which included objectives from all phases of product life-cycle with maintainability/serviceability being one of them.

There are many things wrong with this picture:

Placing water pump in an electrical junction box, insane. Pumps do leak and can cause major headaches, in vicinity of DC wiring water can cause wiring damage, connectors damage and corrosion, and water on AC cables can be deadly.

Pump’s vibration transfer to electrical cables and to RV.

Pump service or replacement looks like a nightmare.

The major production savings as far I can see was not hiring engineers for product design or manufacturing.
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Old 09-11-2021, 07:33 PM   #4
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Gentlemen, this kind of design provides a class B More spaciousness, very nice. And just maybe, a bunch of 4 letter words over a too long period of time.
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:03 PM   #5
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Gentlemen, this kind of design provides a class B More spaciousness, very nice. And just maybe, a bunch of 4 letter words over a too long period of time.

True in several ways, Bud. I think we have seen both extremes on the newer vans, from stuff like this to the end of the spectrum where an entire prime storage area is taken for electronics that could be in a less prime but still decently accessible area. A smart design could use low amounts of space, but still be easily maintained, I think. When I redid our power stuff to go with the big battery bank, I got it all in the area behind the R/H rear wheelwell that had the original Tripplite, but it can be easily removed to service on the bench.


Pix and description of our power system, water pump is far away.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rade-4007.html
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:13 PM   #6
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Gentlemen, this kind of design provides a class B More spaciousness, very nice. And just maybe, a bunch of 4 letter words over a too long period of time.
Had I seen a "watelectric" junction like this before a purchasing decision I wouldn’t use any wards, just feet.
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:06 PM   #7
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All of our major electrical components, including batteries, but except monitor, are under the footrests behind the swiveled seats and under the seats themselves. Easy access, no long runs of heavy wire.
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:52 PM   #8
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True in several ways, Bud. I think we have seen both extremes on the newer vans, from stuff like this to the end of the spectrum where an entire prime storage area is taken for electronics that could be in a less prime but still decently accessible area. A smart design could use low amounts of space, but still be easily maintained, I think. When I redid our power stuff to go with the big battery bank, I got it all in the area behind the R/H rear wheelwell that had the original Tripplite, but it can be easily removed to service on the bench.

Pix and description of our power system, water pump is far away.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rade-4007.html
Yes, smart design, anonym to Winnebago watelectric design.
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:52 PM   #9
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True in several ways, Bud. I think we have seen both extremes on the newer vans, from stuff like this to the end of the spectrum where an entire prime storage area is taken for electronics that could be in a less prime but still decently accessible area. A smart design could use low amounts of space, but still be easily maintained, I think. When I redid our power stuff to go with the big battery bank, I got it all in the area behind the R/H rear wheelwell that had the original Tripplite, but it can be easily removed to service on the bench.


Pix and description of our power system, water pump is far away.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rade-4007.html

booster, I had not seen this. You posted prior to my arrival on the forum. It popped up after, but for whatever reason I had not gone back - too ignorant about the subject in general I suppose. Thanks for posting this.

Now, the question is: How would that Humble fellow rate your work in terms of maintainability? He seems to be kind of a freak about that. Maybe only a 9.8?

Impressive, and thanks again for posting.

Bud
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:14 PM   #10
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booster, I had not seen this. You posted prior to my arrival on the forum. It popped up after, but for whatever reason I had not gone back - too ignorant about the subject in general I suppose. Thanks for posting this.

Now, the question is: How would that Humble fellow rate your work in terms of maintainability? He seems to be kind of a freak about that. Maybe only a 9.8?

Impressive, and thanks again for posting.

Bud

I'll take a 9.8 from Humble fellow any day of the week!
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:22 PM   #11
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.................

Pix and description of our power system, water pump is far away.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rade-4007.html
Very nice design and workmanship for easy life with it. You have similar components to mine including Grape Solar 3x100W solar panels, are they monocrystalline back contact?

Is your Intellitec for main disconnect?

I like a lot clear polycarbonate for electrical panels, easy to see what is under and easy access to switches. I recently use this method for my ME-SBC behind driver seat.
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:34 PM   #12
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Very nice design and workmanship for easy life with it. You have similar components to mine including Grape Solar 3x100W solar panels, are they monocrystalline back contact?

Is your Intellitec for main disconnect?

I like a lot clear polycarbonate for electrical panels, easy to see what is under and easy access to switches. I recently use this method for my ME-SBC behind driver seat.

Yes to both on the solar panels.


The Intellitec is the coach disconnect for 12v power only, off of the original Roadtrek switch up front in the van. Batteries stay connected to all charging sources with it off or on. The manual red Blue Sea is the main disconnect for the batteries, with the exception of the solar which would stay connected unless I pull a fuse. This is to prevent and overvoltage from the panels with no reference. Starting battery and alternator disconnect from coach batteries under the hood or from the cab with a Blue Sea manual disconnect switch.
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Old 09-13-2021, 10:57 PM   #13
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On the topic - https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

“If you’re in the market to buy a new RV, you might want to wait a bit. RV dealers on a recent nationwide conference call said the quality of most recreational vehicles now being produced is “pathetic.”

“It’s some of the worst stuff I’ve seen in 30 years,” said one longtime RV dealer. “It’s horrendous inside and out. But we have no recourse but to put it on the lot and try to sell it. You take what you can get, and you move on.”

The dealer said he suspects many longtime RVers are delaying purchasing a new rig, since it’s no secret – at least on social media and many blogs – that new RV owners aren’t happy with their purchases. “The lack of quality and all of the negative comments in the chat rooms have to be holding people back from moving forward with a purchase.”

The East Coast dealer said RV manufacturers are “building them as fast as they can, and there just isn’t any quality control. Manufacturers are not doing a good job of taking care of their customers. It’s gone from bad to worse.”

Will the industry topple?
, after COVID.
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Old 09-13-2021, 11:13 PM   #14
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Will the industry topple?, after COVID.

IMO, at least a good size chunk of it will. The bigger question to me is,


WILL THE SURVIVORS OF THE TOPPLE LEARN ANYTHING AND DO A BETTER JOB?
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Old 09-13-2021, 11:40 PM   #15
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IMO, at least a good size chunk of it will. The bigger question to me is,


WILL THE SURVIVORS OF THE TOPPLE LEARN ANYTHING AND DO A BETTER JOB?
Without external influence or leaders like Deming or Juran many will go under. Perhaps Germans via Roadtrek/Rapido/Westfalia or Thor/Hymer will shake the market, just like Truma is doing.
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