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Old 10-22-2014, 05:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Actually, the Shire is still a wet bath. It's just the shower pan is in the center of the van. So the bath is the width of the van, but it's only 24" or so deep.

I don't really see a lack of storage here. You have a huge couch with storage under. You have a large pantry cupboard, a hanging locker, a row of upper cabinets the entire length of the driver's side, plus the under counter galley storage. Plus dedicated spaces for the tables. Plus you have a full oven and a microwave! What I'd like to see is something a bit better than the pockets at the rear doors. Needs maybe some hanging storage for lawn chairs and the like.

Wanting two living zones is pretty limiting IMHO. Not everyone wants or needs that. I'd rather trade for the large lounging area and open-ness to the outside.

What you don't see is that there is a full screen door to fit the Ducato/Promaster vans. It's the best in the industry. They don't show it in this video. Winnebago has it on Travato. I think having the full width door unobstructed is a HUGE plus.

There is another video that shows a few more features, including a folding desk/table by the wine cooler cabinet and folding out the bed. The nice thing about this bed arrangement is you can fold it out as just a twin, or go for the whole double bed, your choice.

To me, the cons on this van are lack of air conditioning, no generator and no black tank (uses the cassette). That's mostly why it's probably considered a weekender. I doubt in Europe there is much camping out in the wild without hookups. I think these could be overcome, as there is space under the van for these things. Also, this same arrangement also may work really well on the Transit - especially the long wheelbase model, affording more cupboard space, as well as more storage at the rear of the van.
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:50 PM   #42
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Then it is an ill-designed, oversized wet bath. The bed is only 51 inches wide which is a little bit better than your Travato but still is a no go for two people for any extended period travel if you want to sell it in the United States that has come minimum queen bed conscious (60 inches wide) in my lifetime. The 54 inch full bed when my wife and I were young and spoonful used to be the minimum 2-person bed. The fresh water tank (24 gal.) and the grey water tank (16 gal.) are also very small compared to American Bs. Cassette toilets have already been marketing failures in America in Bs. Composting toilet as a substitute? There are interest in them. 3.1 cubic foot refrigerator is a no go. You could not carry enough food to accommodate a 3 burner stove and oven that it has. It has a nice flip up table but there is already a versatile set of tables for the cab seats and the sofa. Where is the seat for the flip up table which you can't use when the bed is made up? The Coach House Arriva figured that out. I noticed the wine cooler only works when plugged into shore power. That makes little sense.

If you ever traveled for a long period with another person you might understand two living zones a bit better. Most all American Bs are designed that way now. Some better than others. Those two I compared (LTV FS SS and ERA 70C) are a couple of exceptions.

Seriously, the LTV Free Spirit SS Sprinter does everything better. If that is considered the best a Promaster can do then I am afraid once the Ford Transit hits the motorhome B market the Promaster will not get much traction in America at least for baby boomer couples that right now are the biggest market for Bs. The niche market for the Promaster will be for everyday users, weekenders at hookup campgrounds, DIYers and odd sports oriented (younger) people for a toy hauler. I just wonder if there is big enough of a market. For young families it would be difficult to compete against, tents, popups and inexpensive trailers.
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Old 10-22-2014, 09:29 PM   #43
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

I believe the OP was asking what your "favorite B" van is and why. Not "denigrate what other people like", or "why what I like is better than what you like"
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:25 AM   #44
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
American RVs are migrating to designs for the long time and distance haul.
You must be looking at different models than we have. Over the years since we got our 07, nearly every model has reduced storage in favor of "openness" and huge bathrooms, and in our opinion, those items don't help long time and distance use.

The "solution" to the dearth of storage is now to go to extended Sprinters at 24' long., which compromises lots of the other benefits of having a B.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:04 AM   #45
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I've been gone for a few days on an 1100 mile trip to Sedona/ Flagstaff area in our new to us 96 Coachmen Saratoga (similar floorplan to the Verboten MB Cruiser)but after looking at this thread with fresh eyes , I now see our error. We should have asked Davyd what class b we would like to have. Much simpler and easier that way and lots of new customers for Advanced RV.No more pesky generator noise or propane fill ups . No more bothersome money in our retirement accounts. He seems to like black but I think I like white. I guess I'll get black and wash it evey other day. No biggie. I'm sure an RV company knows a helluva lot more than the Tesla(batteries catching on fire) company so sleeping over 600 amp hours worth of experimental lithium batteries shouldn't be anything to worry about. Now to think up a really cool name . Perhaps Lloyd or better yet Wright because that would be the right choice after all.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:17 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanw909
I've been gone for a few days on an 1100 mile trip to Sedona/ Flagstaff area in our new to us 96 Coachmen Saratoga (similar floorplan to the Verboten MB Cruiser)but after looking at this thread with fresh eyes , I now see our error. We should have asked Davyd what class b we would like to have. Much simpler and easier that way and lots of new customers for Advanced RV.No more pesky generator noise or propane fill ups . No more bothersome money in our retirement accounts. He seems to like black but I think I like white. I guess I'll get black and wash it evey other day. No biggie. I'm sure an RV company knows a helluva lot more than the Tesla(batteries catching on fire) company so sleeping over 600 amp hours worth of experimental lithium batteries shouldn't be anything to worry about. Now to think up a really cool name . Perhaps Lloyd or better yet Wright because that would be the right choice after all.

What you should do is ask Davydd to pay for yours. That's the best rv of all-for free!
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:10 PM   #47
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Let's keep it fun and informative. Davydd has strong opinions. Very consistent also. Take 'em or leave 'em

In fairness to Advanced RV let's not mix what they're doing with other battery related incidents we've seen on the news. We need to separate the different battery chemistries if discussing risks - LiFePO4 and Li-Ion batteries are not the same.
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Old 10-23-2014, 03:38 PM   #48
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
I believe the OP was asking what your "favorite B" van is and why. Not "denigrate what other people like", or "why what I like is better than what you like"
Wincrasher, I apologize for my comments in the manner I presented them. I should not have addressed you directly.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:01 PM   #49
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

"Let's keep it fun and informative" . Does that mean I can still want an MB Cruiser?
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:18 PM   #50
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
American RVs are migrating to designs for the long time and distance haul.
You must be looking at different models than we have. Over the years since we got our 07, nearly every model has reduced storage in favor of "openness" and huge bathrooms, and in our opinion, those items don't help long time and distance use.

The "solution" to the dearth of storage is now to go to extended Sprinters at 24' long., which compromises lots of the other benefits of having a B.
Bathrooms range from porta potties to full dry baths. Long time and distance implies either full-time or extended trips vs weekenders and vacations. You have to admit even Roadtrek is migrating away from aisle use of bathrooms and they were the biggest (only?) proponent of them. As you know, I am in between. I prefer a wet bath behind a closed door contained but am not a proponent of a full dry bath.

Storage? How can we measure it? No converter I know has ever published cubic feet or inches. I had full surround upper cabinets in my Great West Van Legend. I'm not sure if there is another Class B that could match that and I know my under sofa/bed storage was better than anyone else's until the ERA 70A came along after. That I did measure at the RV shows and dealers. Advanced RV did an interesting video of inviting a couple to empty their B and put it all back in an Advanced RV. That might be a good test competition of establishing a set of items and challenging all the converters to show how they would be stored.

I agree with you about the 24 foot length. That I struggled with a long time before pulling the trigger. It did resolve one issue. I will never use or need a hitch cargo carrier that would add length to any Class B often beyond 24 feet. Parallel parking in metered and marked areas will be the biggest hindrance. They are generally marked at 24-26 feet so theoretically parkable. Just try and pull out unless you can score an end stall. Pulling straight in to curbed and marked parking stalls would present a problem as well. Uncurbed stalls generally won't be a problem. Even 22 foot Bs like the older Sprinter models and the new Ford Transit have problems since a typical Target/Walmart stall is only 20 foot. Small town downtown slant in stalls ironically are mostly long enough for 24 foot.

As I said, I did struggle with the 24 foot but come to realize an extra 16 inches on a Sprinter adds an amazing amount of versatility. Just take a typical 16 cubic foot cargo carrier and compare it to adding 60 cubic feet inside the B.

20 foot would be ideal but for parking only, but then to me it becomes way to cramped and might be doable for a single person. I've looked at the Chevys, the Sprinter Agile and the P-W Ascents. They would not satisfy me for long time and distance use especially for what I am accustomed to now. As you say, we are all different, but that is my mindset for people to agree or not agree.
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Old 10-23-2014, 04:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanw909
"Let's keep it fun and informative" . Does that mean I can still want an MB Cruiser?
Yup!

I always get a little mixed up with MB Cruiser / Cruiser MB - - - Forest River MB Cruiser / Gulf Stream Vista Cruiser MB
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:31 PM   #52
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

davydd,
Newbie here; we don't have our B yet (still dreaming), but why don't you use water from your freshwater tank for cooking & drinking? We're planning to install a water filter after the freshwater tank with a spicket where a soap dispenser would be. Please provide your reasoning on this.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:20 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout
davydd,
Newbie here; we don't have our B yet (still dreaming), but why don't you use water from your freshwater tank for cooking & drinking? We're planning to install a water filter after the freshwater tank with a spicket where a soap dispenser would be. Please provide your reasoning on this.
There is no reason you can't. We filtered our water with an inline filter on filling but we never had a water filter at the sink spout on our Bs as we do at home. After being on the road and filling at several strange and unknown water quality fill areas you start to suspect the tank supply, real or imagined. Real if you run into heavy reddish discolored iron water or algae tainted. Also, as in any tank, maybe imagined, you start thinking of the "growies" when the water gets a lot warmer than what you have at home. Sometimes, the recommended use of bleach in your tank does not 100% go away until after a couple of tank refill turnovers. Using the drink safe pink anti-freeze can do the same. No harm, but that can be a turn off. It is mostly my wife's decision on this. I must admit starting any trip with the filtered water we use at home is nice. Having the extra water always helps and we can control and ensure the cleanliness of it with more certainty. I brush my teeth and swallow my pills with the sink tap water and I am still here.
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Old 10-23-2014, 08:44 PM   #54
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Okay thanks for your thoughts. Maybe we will start out with a couple of gallons of our fancy filtered home water too. We'll just have to find a place to store it.
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Old 10-23-2014, 09:52 PM   #55
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We store 4 gallons of water under the kitchen sink counter. I know some people store stuff on the bathroom floor and transfer it to the cab floor when stopped. We keep a collapsible dirty clothes hamper in the bathroom and move it up to the passenger side cab area when stopped. When it is full, it is time to do laundry.
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Old 10-23-2014, 10:32 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanw909
I've been gone for a few days on an 1100 mile trip to Sedona/ Flagstaff area in our new to us 96 Coachmen Saratoga (similar floorplan to the Verboten MB Cruiser)but after looking at this thread with fresh eyes , I now see our error. We should have asked Davyd what class b we would like to have. Much simpler and easier that way and lots of new customers for Advanced RV.No more pesky generator noise or propane fill ups . No more bothersome money in our retirement accounts. He seems to like black but I think I like white. I guess I'll get black and wash it evey other day. No biggie. I'm sure an RV company knows a helluva lot more than the Tesla(batteries catching on fire) company so sleeping over 600 amp hours worth of experimental lithium batteries shouldn't be anything to worry about. Now to think up a really cool name . Perhaps Lloyd or better yet Wright because that would be the right choice after all.
Stan,

You forgot the first name, Frank. But if I were you I would name yours Ollie.

We never gave our two previous Bs a name. We thought about it but nothing ever stuck or popped out. I know a lot of people we meet up with have given their Bs names to personalize them. Advanced RV somewhat insists on it as that is how they track them during the conversion process. So I named ours before they did. A few Advanced RVers have changed their B names that started out at Advanced RV under another name but they all seem to go along with it with new names. I can't see how that idea would work if a company was putting out a thousand or more Bs. It probably couldn't work with Advanced RV forever. Next we will be putting decal eyes on the windshield.

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Old 11-03-2014, 06:52 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout
Okay thanks for your thoughts. Maybe we will start out with a couple of gallons of our fancy filtered home water too. We'll just have to find a place to store it.
We put our 2 gallon plastic bottle with tap in the sink while we are travelling. It provides enough water for drinking, mixing, etc and the rest we use from the water tank or city/piped in water for everything else.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:23 AM   #58
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Default Re: Favorite Class B

Interesting conversation.

There are as many 'best layouts' as there are people, my choice still being a converted cargo van (self-built). Not that it would have a better layout, that's purely personal and depends on many factors, like number of people traveling in it and type of travel. Just weekends, boondocking or anything in between.
It's about the quality of the built and the materials used. Anything out-of-sight is often (in my opinion) less important for commercial builders. Insulation, for instance, can be added to or improved in a self-built, which in turn makes life a lot more comfortable in the long run. It is also easier to add and incorporate a photovoltaic system, with better wiring, which sometimes is undersized and different components based on your personal situation. Undercarriage areas can be better utilized, creating more interior space.
Of course, not everybody is able or willing to do a complete conversion and that's fine.
Having seen some of the image/videos in this discussion, I must say most of them are quite nice looking with good layouts for the appropriate people, so please continue.

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