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Old 01-20-2015, 09:53 PM   #41
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

I don't think that they'd try to enter the US market at the top end of the Promaster group pricing without discounts.
I'd expect them to "purchase" market share with discounting.

The Travato 59K has two AGM batteries and solar. Only one battery for the Hymercar Grand Canyon and no solar mentioned in the brochure.
The Travato 59K has individual twin beds - always ready - for sleeping. Hymercar Grand Canyon has - across the rear - set it up at night - for sleeping (assuming you use the storage space during the day.

Distinct choices between the two. Also Safari Condo Flex can have individual twin beds and the permanent dinette up front.

The competition is there. It all depends on what the buyer wants.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:22 PM   #42
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

mlts,

Pretty good assessment. I would question the quality of cabinets fit/finish and knobs being anything similar to the Travato as you mentioned. The Hymer appears vastly superior in that regard.

The bed is definitely a young active couple's bed. As close as I can tell it is going to be at least 32" high off the floor and maybe a tad higher. That is too high for me as I have been testing and experimenting in that regard. You have to crawl into it and you have no choice but to sleep crosswise meaning inconvenience if one has to get up at night. Why cross wise? Not enough depth front to back. Also, they use a slat bed frame system which is definitely directional as opposed to a Froile suspension system which can be bi-directional. Slat bed systems are rare in America. IKEA sells them in varying grades with the foam mattress toppers. This bed is similar. We have a couple of those kinds of beds in our home and they are very comfortable within a minimal depth as opposed to the American box spring mattresses on top of box spring bases.

Their treatment of the TV is interesting and a little bit confusing. They say they have 3 locations you can place a TV of many different sizes and they show a TV in a slide out drawer from under the bed that must have accessibility from the aisle inside as well with cabinet doors. I assume that is a storage area while underway and the TV does not mount to a swing arm.

I'm definitely not their targeted guy. They don't seem to be marketing to families either as they are not emphasizing or showing that pop top they have. Maybe the American demand for air conditioning has stymied that idea for now.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlts22

If the price is $99k, no negotiation, then they are trying to compete against the Roadtrek SS Agile or the Pleasure Way Ascent. For ProMaster rigs, Comparing MSRP to MSRP, a Travato's is $85,476, making about a $15,000 price difference between the two models, at the minimum, and with a 20% discount on a Travato, I'm looking at a $30,000 price difference.
We spoke to the people at the Hymer booth and they seemed very eager to sell those 2 vehicles. I got the impression the actual price was in the mid 70's.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

mlts:

Great assessment. Couldn't agree more with you. All the closure hardware on the cabinets look to be the same supplier than W is using on their Travato's and Era's. What we don't know is if the cabinetry is laminated plywood, or particle board, or something different.

I would imagine their pricing practices will be the same as the rest of the Promaster pack. It's expected in the marketplace there will be discounting. With the falling Euro, they may have even more flexibility than we know. Just like other manufacturers have found, our CHEAP labor and CHEAP energy makes it attractive to build things here rather than import them.

It's very exciting to see a broad smorgasbord of offerings coming with B vans. Hope it continues and that cheap oil doesn't derail it.

On this particular model, I don't care for the bed either. I'd much rather see the motorized drop down bed and a lounge/dinnette underneath it. Then you could either sleep on the lounge, or drop the bed, or have a two queen bunkbed of sorts for two couples. Wouldn't that be fun?

And yes, I'd accept the cassette as a trade-off to get those big tanks. Although Zion tanks are not much smaller even using the traditional black tank arrangement. Just goes to show you, layout is key.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:53 PM   #45
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

From their website, I see this listed:

125V external connection under hood with (2) ground fault circuit interrupter for 125Vac & 12Vdc

What do you suppose this is for?


And this under kitchen:

Pre-installation gas socket

Does this van not have an on-board LP tank? Many Eurovans have a bottle locker and not a built in tank.
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Old 01-20-2015, 10:59 PM   #46
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgregg
We spoke to the people at the Hymer booth and they seemed very eager to sell those 2 vehicles. I got the impression the actual price was in the mid 70's.
Around $75,000 after some negotiating would be ideal

Did anyone confirm that the Grand Canyon model is a shorter ProMaster? If so they've done well with the space.

European brochure:
Grand Canyon: length 5.99m so 19.65 feet
Yellowstone: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet
Sierra Nevada: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:05 PM   #47
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

It's actually kind of amazing, considering what you could do with an additional 2 feet of van. The 5.99 meter size must be their popular offering in Europe. I see a lot of videos of that size on youtube.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:27 AM   #48
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

It was the short ProMaster and a good use of space. The E/W bath and bed helps a lot.

Mid 70s price was floated for the prototype vans only, I think they wanted to be competitive with the Lazy Days "show price" on the Travato 59K, which was around $76k. Hymer was very interested in getting these units sold at the show.

No price was given for future vans, only that they would be competitive with the Canadian mfgs.
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Old 01-21-2015, 02:27 PM   #49
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgregg
We spoke to the people at the Hymer booth and they seemed very eager to sell those 2 vehicles. I got the impression the actual price was in the mid 70's.
Around $75,000 after some negotiating would be ideal

Did anyone confirm that the Grand Canyon model is a shorter ProMaster? If so they've done well with the space.

European brochure:
Grand Canyon: length 5.99m so 19.65 feet
Yellowstone: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet
Sierra Nevada: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet

This is exciting news, the North American market will finally have real competition in the B market. Interesting to see what will be their distribution channels. No wonder Roadtrek was in such a rush to show the Zion! I Imagine the Sierra Nevada and the Yellowstone will follow if they succeed to introduce the Grand Canyon. Their marketing strategy was planned long time ago.

The Sydney (a bit too small for the US market)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 992&type=3

The Yellowstone
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 992&type=3

The long 20' 10" Sierra Nevada
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They added a generator and the outdoor TV


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Old 01-21-2015, 03:06 PM   #50
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

A 50" tv on a pull out! Do people really want that, or are they just making a statement?


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Old 01-21-2015, 03:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

It will be interesting to see what dealers wind up with them, and if the big guys try to lock them out like Roadtrek has done with Pleasure-way over the years (couldn't be a Roadtrek dealer if you had Pleasure-way).

Very interested to seeing what they come up with no matter who is selling them.
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:05 PM   #52
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster
It will be interesting to see what dealers wind up with them, and if the big guys try to lock them out like Roadtrek has done with Pleasure-way over the years (couldn't be a Roadtrek dealer if you had Pleasure-way).

Very interested to seeing what they come up with no matter who is selling them.

Van City in St. Louis handles all the Canadian class B brands, RT, PW, LT, as well as a couple others. Not Interstate or WGO's though. Be curious to see if they pick up Hymer
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:19 PM   #53
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

my dealer has roadtrek and winnebago travato
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

The only rivalry I am aware of is between Roadtrek and Pleasure-way. Lake Region RVs in Minnesota dropped Pleasure-way to pick up Roadtrek but they still rep Great West Vans and Leisure Travel Vans plus a few other brands. Van City is big enough and probably grandfathered in on its representation.
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:44 PM   #55
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
The only rivalry I am aware of is between Roadtrek and Pleasure-way. Lake Region RVs in Minnesota dropped Pleasure-way to pick up Roadtrek but they still rep Great West Vans and Leisure Travel Vans plus a few other brands. Van City is big enough and probably grandfathered in on its representation.
I asked Van City about their multibrand representation when we bought our Lexor in 2008. Was told that normally RT doesn't allow PW's to be at the same dealership, but that they didn't want to piss off, (their words), their highest volume dealership, at that time of course, so they don't pursue it.
Now that RT is under a different ownership? Who knows what goes on in the backround....
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:55 PM   #56
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB
Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgregg
We spoke to the people at the Hymer booth and they seemed very eager to sell those 2 vehicles. I got the impression the actual price was in the mid 70's.
Around $75,000 after some negotiating would be ideal

Did anyone confirm that the Grand Canyon model is a shorter ProMaster? If so they've done well with the space.

European brochure:
Grand Canyon: length 5.99m so 19.65 feet
Yellowstone: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet
Sierra Nevada: length 6.36m so 20.77 feet

This is exciting news, the North American market will finally have real competition in the B market. Interesting to see what will be their distribution channels. No wonder Roadtrek was in such a rush to show the Zion! I Imagine the Sierra Nevada and the Yellowstone will follow if they succeed to introduce the Grand Canyon. Their marketing strategy was planned long time ago.

The Sydney (a bit too small for the US market)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 992&type=3

The Yellowstone
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 992&type=3

The long 20' 10" Sierra Nevada
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 992&type=3

My FB album
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Featured on my Kampervan Flipboard Blog
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and my Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/kampervanfun

They added a generator and the outdoor TV (Bikes and outdoor TV, very unusual!)



The Grand Canyon is the shorter Long Wheelbase (159") Promaster 19' 8" (236") in length. I imagine it's the 3500 ProMaster

They must have taken the spare out to make room for the generator, and it's a cassette toilet. Interesting to see if the american B market is ready for a cassette toilet RV in that price range. 80K and up.
IMO not enough room for a grey and black tank, plus a generator on the (236" length) model.
Apart from the contemporary design, these Hymer vans are built with much more industrialized techniques than our US ProMaster Bs, like Roadtrek, Winnebago and Pleasureway. The B market is much more developed in Europe and it brings the price down. In the UK, a Grand Canyon, well equipped is around 75 435 $ USD (with the optional added roof bed) see http://www.motorhomes.co.uk/motorhomes- ... nyon/1421/

The dimensions of the RAM ProMaster vans:
(Grand Canyon is the shorter Long Wheelbase (159") Promaster 19' 8" (236") in length. I imagine it's the 3500 ProMaster)
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Old 01-21-2015, 07:59 PM   #57
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Lake Region RVs switched to Roadtrek over Pleasure-way after Roadtrek's new ownership.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:11 PM   #58
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
A 50" tv on a pull out! Do people really want that, or are they just making a statement?


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Agree, an outdoor TV is very strange, in combination with the bike storage. They are testing the american market. It's very easy to take it out in the production line if it doesn't sell, but a black tank option is much more complicated to add if they realize that the US customers want it. The whole layout is based on the position of the bathroom.
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Old 01-22-2015, 12:46 AM   #59
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Yes, I think the TV was more of a joke than anything, but you never know. I take my van tailgaiting to football games sometimes, so I can see that being a fun thing to have. But you could just as easily buy a cheap flatscreen TV and carry it for such occasions.

When camping, I like to watch the news in the evening, or watch an important sporting event, so I like to have a TV on board. My Travato has it's interior TV in a position where you could watch it sitting outside (with the screen door closed), which has been good to have so far. On one trip I actually closed the van door and could still see the TV just fine thru the van's door (sound thru the outside speakers.

The layout works pretty well considering this is the short version of the van. With 2 extra feet on the 159" wheelbase van, I see no reason why a black tank couldn't be fitted in this layout. You could also use this same layout and get a hanging clothes locker and a longer kitchen counter. The only downsides I see in this van is the small fridge and the gas bottles. I'd like to see a 5 cu ft fitted. I'm also not sure about the gas bottle locker under the kitchen, taking up that valuable storage space. I like the idea of a totable bottle you can take to be filled, but it has to be placed wisely in the layout. We also don't really know about the LP consumption on the Truma unit, at least not practical user experience anyways, to understand how much LP capacity is adequate.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:18 AM   #60
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Default Re: HymerCar Grand Canyon at Tampa RV Show

Outdoor TVs seem to be a new selling point. The Pleasure-way Plateau XL small Class C promotes the idea and Winnebago has the outside speakers so you can watch the kitchen counter mounted TV from outside on the ERAs. I would think it would be more of a tailgating feature.
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