Looking for a short (17ft) B-Class

[Urlauber]

Ok, so I am looking for a shorter Class B with a popup top, since that's all that fits in the driveway.
It does need to have 6ft inside height and a bathroom, so the Tofino is out.
An A/C is a must too, so Solis is out, plus it is 2.5ft too long.
Plus convertible couch providing room for at least 3 people to sleep.

Basically exactly like the now unavailable Hymer Axion Loft.

Is there such a thing? I suppose not, but I want one anyway!

[mkguitar]

roadtrek popular 170 ?


poptops- check sportsmobile


Mike

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

roadtrek popular 170 ?


poptops- check sportsmobile


Mike

Thank you for the reply, appreciate it.

I believe the 170 doesn't have a bathroom, nor pop-up (which I think is a must to fit stuff into a 17ft wagon). And it's been out of production for a while... want something more recent, rather than a DIY adventure.

I don't think "Sportsmobile" has the headroom to stand up.

[mumkin]

The 170 has a full bathroom in that there is an aisle shower. No need for a pop-top as it has a raised top.

No larger converter is doing much of anything on the shortest vans. Since I too am looking at downsizing in a few years, I have been looking for something as short as possible. I have found a few interesting possibilities on the very short 1500 Promaster that is only 16'3."

5 Mars in Quebec is doing one, but it has no bath or AC. It is tough to find AC with a pop top, as it can't support the weight. The undermount units don't really work that well it seems. To me, one option is that in a van that small, you could use the dash AC. They also make an option on the same van as the Tofino, and it has AC, but no poptop. (not to mention the Pacifica mini-van.)

https://www.5marsrv.com/en/inspiration-c/

Another company for you to look at is Colorado Campers. It is a build to order on your van. They seem very flexible in what they can/will do, but their main product is a more basic camper. But, they have a very robust pop top that may take an AC unit. Give them a call.

https://www.coloradocampervan.com/

There is also GTRV in California. They too build to order.

https://gtrv.com/

The advantage of GTRV and Colorado Campers over Sportsmobile is that they have a much shorter wait. I've heard that Sportsmobile now has a 16-18 month wait but they do make poptops with an internal AC option. And yes, all of their units give you the option to stand up ... with the pop-top up.

If you are looking to be able to stand with the pop top down, I did see some photos on Colorado Camper's site of a tall van... Promaster or Transit... with a pop-top.

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by mumkin

To me, one option is that in a van that small, you could use the dash AC.

some municipalities may ticket for "idling" if that is a concern*


ps the easy way to turn a 21' to a 20' is to remove the spare tire-

-for areas which have a 20' rule ( Santa Monica) when visiting the mother in law and street parking I remove the spare and put it in her apt parking space-
-at 21' I would have to apply for a permit from the city, but the out of state registration is a hold up depending on who is working the counter

I think if the OP is stuck on 17' an older roadtrek is a great choice

I believe they have the chev 4.8 liter which is the smaller vortec V8 and what is in my pick up, it's a good motor, probably marginal for towing given the weight of the RV

Mike


* we have this concern with rock n roll prevost buses.
PD are sometimes called for "idling" outside hotels or venues and if displayed it's a genny they go away. running the vehicle on high idle will get a ticket ( chicago)

[Urlauber]

Thank you very much for your reply!

Originally Posted by mumkin

No larger converter is doing much of anything on the shortest vans.

Ah, there's the rub/explanation. Well that's too bad. I figured someone might have done a follow-up to the Hymer/Carado/Axion/Loft/Studio idea.

I will study the links you provided, but - not knowing anything about that - my assumption is that the custom conversions would be pricey and/or not as good looking as what the larger converters like PW or WGO come up with. Just from the economies of scale sort of thing.

I THINK my dream layout would be a Travato 59G with the last 4 feet sawed off, without the bed in the back, smaller, more squar-ish bathroom, and a pop top. Undermount AC would be nice. Front lounge convertible to bed.

[rockymtnb]

Mumkin has provided a nice overview of the currently available suppliers for under 18ft length, full height vans in North America: Colorado Camper Van, Sportsmobile, and GTRV. One further Canadian option is the Safari Condo Promaster MX18, which can be optionally outfitted for sleeping up to four:

https://safaricondo.com/en/motorises...master-m18-mx/

And if you can't find a Hymer Axion Loft currently for sale that design may be coming back under new Thor / Hymer ownership. Thor purchased Hymer's European operations last year and has announced US availability for 2021, however they have not announced which specific Hymer units will be available here. The current Hymer design similar to the Axion is the Ayers Rock model:

[mkguitar]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

dream layout would be a Travato 59G ....and a pop top.

on many vans ( unibody) the top is a stressed member of the structure.


to engineer a poptop takes alot of engineering which would have to be tested and certified- I don't know if you would see that


mike

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Mumkin has provided a nice overview of the currently available suppliers for under 18ft length, full height vans in North America: Colorado Camper Van, Sportsmobile, and GTRV. One further Canadian option is the Safari Condo Promaster MX18, which can be optionally outfitted for sleeping up to four:

https://safaricondo.com/en/motorises...master-m18-mx/

And if you can't find a Hymer Axion Loft currently for sale that design may be coming back under new Thor / Hymer ownership. Thor purchased Hymer's European operations last year and has announced US availability for 2021, however they have not announced which specific Hymer units will be available here. The current Hymer design similar to the Axion is the Ayers Rock model:

That Ayers Rock/Free 540 looks great! Almost perfect, if one could convert the front lounge into a bed the poptop would even be optional.

I guess we can wait another year for Thor to send loads of them overseas. Right now the costs for Class B campers and others are through the roof anyway, more demand than supply.

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

on many vans ( unibody) the top is a stressed member of the structure.


to engineer a poptop takes alot of engineering which would have to be tested and certified- I don't know if you would see that


mike

Mike, not sure I understand your post. I did not literally mean to saw off the back of a Travato and cut out a hole for the popup, of course that would be ill advised.

I was referring to some of the main converters to fit the 59G layout into one of the short popup campers, like the Axion or (as I just learned!) the Ayers Rock. In theory it should fit if the bed in the back is removed and the bathroom re-arranged in shape and maybe location (move to drivers side).

[mkguitar]

I mean the roof structure is part of the "frame" of the van


these are unibody construction, there is no frame ( think skeleton) underneath the van, instead the structure is created by the shell ( like a bug)


so if the roof is altered, then the structure needs to braced somehow- this engineering would add much to the cost of a vehicle


mike

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

these are unibody construction, there is no frame ( think skeleton) underneath the van, instead the structure is created by the shell ( like a bug).
so if the roof is altered, then the structure needs to braced somehow- this engineering would add much to the cost of a vehicle.

Fortunately on the high roof Promaster designs such as the Solis and Ayers Rock they only cut out small skylight-size portal in the roof for pop-top access. I assume they do reinforce this portal for strength but it's not a large issue.

For low roof pop-tops such as the traditional Sportsmobile design a large area of the roof must be cut out for stand-up height access. This requires a welded reinforcement ring around the entire perimeter. This must be engineered and welded quite precisely and as Mike points out is a costly and time consuming process.

[mumkin]

Just a couple comments ...

Idling... Most all of the Roadtrek products have the underhood generators, so you idle the engines to use them. It is no more polluting than an Onan and much quieter. No one has had any issues idling to use the rooftop ACs in those rigs.

Thor/Hymer

They will not be bringing any of the European vans here. Much too problematic for complying with both US vehicle laws and RVIA. What remains to be seen is which of the Hymer models they decide to clone over here. I don't expect them to bring over any of the shorter models since they didn't sell all that well under EHGNA. Thus far they have just cloned the Aktiv... which was a clone of one of the European Hymer models named after a national park. (I am no fan of Hymer or Thor...)

My advice is to give GTRV and Colorado Camper a call. Tell them your wish list and they can tell you what they can or can't do for you.

And it will NOT be more expensive that RT or PW or Winnie... it will be cheaper. You can delete the stuff you don't want or need... and you can get decent insulation and such... and a 4 season rig if that is your wish

[Urlauber]

I don't get how in Europe there's a bunch of those shorter campers available while over here (US) nothing.
Come on Westfalia Ford Transit Nugget Plus Popup or High Roof!! Club Joker City! Ayers Rock, etc.

[MsNomer]

Because Americans think big is better and Europeans know better.

[GeorgeRa]

In 2013 we searched, got nowhere so we built our own Westfalia like Sprinter. Today there are more van and camper van options. B class customer base is older than camper vans younger market segment in Europe.

VW California was evaluated in California in 2018 but nothing happened, likely it is kaput.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swtpoH-HZgY

[coss370]

Toyota sienna

[Urlauber]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Because Americans think big is better and Europeans know better.

Haha, yeah. Why be efficient if you can go BIG?

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

In 2013 we searched, got nowhere so we built our own Westfalia like Sprinter. Today there are more van and camper van options. B class customer base is older than camper vans younger market segment in Europe.

VW California was evaluated in California in 2018 but nothing happened, likely it is kaput.

That could well be, older vs younger customer base.
Kudos, but I am not brave enough to build myself (or even have someone custom build). The California is nice, but lacking a toilet. There are many models which have that, like the few I mentioned earlier. One day...

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by coss370

Toyota sienna

As far as I know, only GTRV converts the Sienna, and only as a weekender... just a pop-top with a bed in back. And it would have to be an older model. The new Sienna are all hybrids, and probably not a good choice now. Pop-top will need to be redesigned because of the body changes too. With being 6-8 months out on an order now, GTRV probably won't have the time to ponder those changes.

[ilmor]

Originally Posted by Urlauber

Ok, so I am looking for a shorter Class B with a popup top, since that's all that fits in the driveway.
It does need to have 6ft inside height and a bathroom, so the Tofino is out.
An A/C is a must too, so Solis is out, plus it is 2.5ft too long.
Plus convertible couch providing room for at least 3 people to sleep.

Basically exactly like the now unavailable Hymer Axion Loft.

Is there such a thing? I suppose not, but I want one anyway!

Look no further than the Pleasure-Way Tofino. 17 ft. long and a pop-top. I just got mine and love it!