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Old 12-19-2019, 08:24 PM   #1
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Default MB Sprinter Disturbing News Delay

I listened to the Wendlands RV Lifestyle podcast this morning and in the question and answer segment this came up.

QUESTION: My dealer says all RV manufacturers are now experiencing major difficulties getting new Sprinters from Mercedes Benz. I know this was a problem last year but this is supposedly something new. Can you confirm? Tom, Grand Rapids, MI

ANSWER: Yes, I am hearing the same thing and, yes, this is something new And it is a major hit on all small RV manufacturers who have orders waiting or want to build on the 2020 Mercedes-Benz chassis. Bottom line is all production of 2020 Mercedes Benz Sprinters in North Americas has ceased and no new Sprinter diesel vans or cutaway chassis are being released. The problem is caused by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency which has told Mercedes it needs to recertify all its 2020 models to make sure they meet ESPA emission control standards. There’s no problem with the engine, which is identical to the 2019 Sprinter, but the need to recertify and test the engines is expected to delay production for months. Earliest I’ve heard that the process is expected to be complete is April 2020. So… if you have a 2020 RV on order that is on the 2020 chassis, it’s not coming anytime soon. Some manufacturers still have a supply of 2019 Sprinters — which themselves were delayed… but nobody will be building on 2020 Sprinter chassis for quite some time. It’s a big issue for all north RV manufacturers that use the Sprinter. It’s also one reason why the Ford Transit is rapidly becoming the small motorhome chassis of choice for many RV makers… there are no such issues. Except, indirectly, the demand for 2020 Ford Transit chassis is growing so fast that I wouldn’t be surprised to see them hard to come by soon, either. I’ll let you know.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:33 PM   #2
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Consider the source.

Here is a link:

"The new Sprinter has debuted worldwide but not in the U.S. No one knows the exact 2020 Mercedes Sprinter release date for the U.S. market since no official announcement has been made. However, if the schedule is to be followed, the upcoming Sprinter will enter the U.S. market in late 2020."

So apparently if anyone was planning on building on the new 2020 Mercedes chassis before next fall, that was not in the cards. If they were promising units on the 2020 chassis before then, they were blowing smoke. Some of which may have gotten in the Wendland's eyes.
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:36 PM   #3
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And you know that one reason for a shortage of Sprinters, Transits, and Promasters is seen every day in your neighborhood. Those blue Amazon Prime vans are everywhere in MN and AZ. (not sure about other states)
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Old 12-19-2019, 09:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossWilliams View Post
Consider the source.

Here is a link:

"The new Sprinter has debuted worldwide but not in the U.S. No one knows the exact 2020 Mercedes Sprinter release date for the U.S. market since no official announcement has been made. However, if the schedule is to be followed, the upcoming Sprinter will enter the U.S. market in late 2020."

So apparently if anyone was planning on building on the new 2020 Mercedes chassis before next fall, that was not in the cards. If they were promising units on the 2020 chassis before then, they were blowing smoke. Some of which may have gotten in the Wendland's eyes.
That's just more disturbing news worse than what Wendland said.

BTW, that article didn't say much of any substance. I thought at first it was a rehash of the 2019 announcement.
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:07 PM   #5
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This issue is being discussed on the Sprinter-Source Forum.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=81735

. . . and the Unity Sub forum.

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=81738
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Old 12-19-2019, 10:19 PM   #6
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And you know that one reason for a shortage of Sprinters, Transits, and Promasters is seen every day in your neighborhood. Those blue Amazon Prime vans are everywhere in MN and AZ. (not sure about other states)
This is apparently very true. In my discussions with Embassy RV they said getting any of the vans, Sprinter, Transit, or ProMaster has been difficult, with many delays.

Those blue vans are also all over the place here near Baltimore.
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Old 12-19-2019, 11:23 PM   #7
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Just to be clear, the Wendlands and the article I linked are talking about the future 2020 Mercedes Sprinter, not the currently available ones.

One of the links Boxster provides seems to reference Wendlands as its source. I am wondering if this is just rumor. Maybe we can start giving it credence when (and if) there is an actual shortage of class B's available on dealer lots this spring.
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Old 12-20-2019, 12:46 AM   #8
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I suspect the actual issue is the Amazon Van.


They are literally buying a country's worth of any big box van they can get their hands on.

Money talks,
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:36 AM   #9
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That's a small part of it. Amazon has ordered upwards of 12k Promasters and so far 9k Transits. The Promasters and Transits are thick here in the Kansas City area.
Latest news on the Transit diesel is that it's a delayed 2020 option on the updated chassis being built right now (new motor for North America). Probably one of the reasons Leisure Travel is ordering their Ford chassis with the EcoBoost which was not available on the cutaway Transit chassis before. They have also ceased Serenity production till at least June of '20, while increasing Wonder production. They are also building AWD Wonders as soon as they filter the 2020 chassis into production.

I know Winnebago is scratching the bottom of the barrel for Sprinter chassis pretty much taking whatever they can get. The reason they won't commit to a specific set of chassis options on their Views, ERAs and Revels
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Old 12-20-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
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This thread may be of great interest for anyone following this topic. Seems to be 2020-MB Sprinter Diesel, EPA Issue still following and much bleed over from 3-forums.

https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad.../2020/2020.php
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:38 PM   #11
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"I thought at first it was a rehash of the 2019 announcement. "

I think it basically is a rehash. There was never any reason to expect the new Mercedes Sprinter to be available in the US until next fall. That may well have something to do with getting through all the regulatory hoops. So what?
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Old 12-20-2019, 02:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
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So what?
I think the "what" is that it is giving folks (including upfitters) more time to come to their senses and look elsewhere. I suspect that the great Diesel Delusion is running its course.

I wonder how long it will be before ARV broadens their offerings. Sticking to their Mercedes knitting during their start-up phase made great sense. The NRE and overhead involved in supporting multiple platforms would have seriously cramped their style. Won't last forever, though.
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossWilliams View Post
"I thought at first it was a rehash of the 2019 announcement. "

I think it basically is a rehash. There was never any reason to expect the new Mercedes Sprinter to be available in the US until next fall. That may well have something to do with getting through all the regulatory hoops. So what?
So what? As I said your link added nothing new to what was already in the 2019's that I could detect. Wendland was essentially correct in his answer and the official word I was told was the South Carolina plant was going to start making the designated 2020 model at the turn of the year. Now it is not until after April just as he said with the delay in certification. Next fall I suspect the 2021 will be announced. I hadn't read anything about 2020 not available until next fall.
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:28 PM   #14
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That's a small part of it. Amazon has ordered upwards of 12k Promasters and so far 9k Transits. The Promasters and Transits are thick here in the Kansas City area.
Here is AZ, they are mostly Sprinters... with an occasional Transit. Haven't seen one Promaster. In MN, most seem to be Promaster.

I don't think it is a small part.
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Old 12-20-2019, 03:28 PM   #15
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I think the "what" is that it is giving folks (including upfitters) more time to come to their senses and look elsewhere. I suspect that the great Diesel Delusion is running its course.

I wonder how long it will be before ARV broadens their offerings. Sticking to their Mercedes knitting during their start-up phase made great sense. The NRE and overhead involved in supporting multiple platforms would have seriously cramped their style. Won't last forever, though.
They tried without much success to do that with the MB Metris. They are committed to the best in all aspects in chassis and upfits. I would personally be disappointed if they built on the Promaster chassis but the Transit would be acceptable if push comes to shove. I wouldn't mind having an Ecoboost engine over a diesel if I could get the equivalent of the diesel-fired Espar glycol heat and hot water in gasoline.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:26 PM   #16
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Rumors to replace old rumors. As the saying goes, those that are talking don't know and those that know aren't talking. There was never any reason to expect the new Sprinter to be immediately available in North America other than speculation and wishful thinking.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:44 PM   #17
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Rumors to replace old rumors. As the saying goes, those that are talking don't know and those that know aren't talking. There was never any reason to expect the new Sprinter to be immediately available in North America other than speculation and wishful thinking.
Are you confused? The new Sprinter, is the VS30 model and ARV and every major upfitter are already converting them. They were the 2019 model and I doubt the 2020 model will be much different, if anything other than options.

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Old 12-20-2019, 04:46 PM   #18
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They tried without much success to do that with the MB Metris. They are committed to the best in all aspects in chassis and upfits. I would personally be disappointed if they built on the Promaster chassis but the Transit would be acceptable if push comes to shove. I wouldn't mind having an Ecoboost engine over a diesel if I could get the equivalent of the diesel-fired Espar glycol heat and hot water in gasoline.
Davydd,

What was your schedule for your new, shorter RV? What is it now?

Regards, Dick
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:56 PM   #19
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They tried without much success to do that with the MB Metris. ...........................
ARV approach with Metris of developing a new product and then seeking potential customers was a little awkward. There is an existing customer base of Westfalia like layouts and ARV could have direct their effort towards the known market and likely be successful.

There are many successful conversions based on this size vans, ARV missed the target by far.

VW California - https://www.motor1.com/reviews/37423...a-first-drive/

Jules Verne MB Vito (Metris) https://www.campersales.co.uk/camper...a/jules-verne/

Marco Polo - https://westfalia-mobil.de/en/modell...ivity_en.phpor

and seems successful introduction of Tofino based Promaster which is only 3 ½” longer than Metris.

https://pleasureway.com/models/tofin...specifications

I wouldn’t consider ARV failure as an indicator of successful camper vans based on smaller vans.
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Old 12-20-2019, 05:02 PM   #20
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Davydd,

What was your schedule for your new, shorter RV? What is it now?

Regards, Dick
I don't know. That's the reason of this thread as I first learned of the April news from the Wendland RV Lifestyle podcast as I was exercising in the gym yesterday morning. I would hope Mercedes Benz would still be in production whether they say it is a 2019 or 2020. I ordered a 2019 last May. Later, in the delays, I was told it would now be a 2020 model switching over this fall, hence my alarm. I haven't had time to ask the mothership (ARV) and the above ARV video came out yesterday.

I had my design set way back in in 2018 but I deliberately waited for the VS30 model changeover that occurred with the 2019 model year.
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