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Old 12-13-2017, 06:04 PM   #1
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Default Mercedes ditching diesels in North America?

Here is a blurb about it, that doesn't go into much details.

If the article is correct, does this mean that Sprinters will be dropped from the market, or will M-B move to gasoline engines?
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:30 PM   #2
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Interesting, but with a new plant going up I don't think they will bail on the vans, just make them gas.

I also think that they excuse of the biodiesel issues may be just that, an excuse. In reality, I think it could also be because they were pulling similar "cheats" to VW, and can either not make the standard and maintain performance and mileage, or the requirement of listing changes from past models may have scared them into the fear of past transgressions showing up in the filings.

Gas engine tech is getting the point they can compete with diesel on nearly all fronts, so not all that big a practical deal, but I do hope they change the design parameters for gas engines to more closely match the diesels, such as making the setup to run full output for long periods without overheating and causing excessive wear. You need that for trucks and very heavy vehicles. Gas engines have traditionally been much more powerful than the diesels, but limited in the time they can put out that much power, because they weren't used in that type of applications. Some gas engines came close though, like the Ford V10 and the old Ford 300CID inline six cylinder.
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Old 12-13-2017, 07:19 PM   #3
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I was looking at sprinters in 2007-the first year of the modern sprinter. IT DID HAVE A GASOLINE ENGINE OPTION. the option only lasted one year.

Transit vans are gasoline-at least in North america.

However the gasoline engine that sprinter offered in 2007 required PREMIUM gasoline.
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Old 12-13-2017, 08:39 PM   #4
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It's already been reported the Ladson, SC plant would build gas Sprinters. That's old news. Whether they build diesels or not is not clear. The article speculates diesels are on their way out because MB has not submitted documentation to the NHTSA on their new models for diesel engines. I guess they have to do that annually.
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:28 PM   #5
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I suspect that part of the calculation is that they very likely have taken a tremendous beating on warranty repair costs on the BlueTec emissions system that they have been totally unable to make reliable.

Diesel is not long for this world anyway, so it makes sense for them to just move on.
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Old 12-13-2017, 09:40 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Davydd View Post
It's already been reported the Ladson, SC plant would build gas Sprinters. That's old news. Whether they build diesels or not is not clear. The article speculates diesels are on their way out because MB has not submitted documentation to the NHTSA on their new models for diesel engines. I guess they have to do that annually.

Where did you read that? the ladson plant stuff?
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:02 PM   #7
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I was looking at sprinters in 2007-the first year of the modern sprinter. IT DID HAVE A GASOLINE ENGINE OPTION. the option only lasted one year.

Transit vans are gasoline-at least in North america.

However the gasoline engine that sprinter offered in 2007 required PREMIUM gasoline.
There is a diesel option for the Transit van in North America...

The EcoBoost gas engine is generally preferred to the diesel but it has not been offered in the cutaway so the diesel is used in some of the Class C Transits, e.g., the Winnebago Fuse and the LTV Wonder...
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:34 PM   #8
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The story on Mercedes dropping diesels in USA was first reported several months ago on the Sprinter-Source forum. At the time the MB executive quoted said that diesels only accounted for 2% of Mercedes car sales in USA so for 2017 they were dropping the diesel option. Sprinters were not specifically discussed in the story, but as a result of that news release they dropped the 4-cylinder diesel option on Sprinters for the balance of 2017 MY. Only the 3.0L V-6 diesel continued to be offered in 2017 Sprinters. I suspect part of the problem was cost of getting the old 2.1L 4-cylinder certified in USA, while Mercedes has just released a new 2.0L 4-cylinder diesel in Europe that is likely to end up in USA Sprinters.

Long term I'd imagine diesels will be limited to the heavy truck market. But then Tesla is turning that idea on its head with its new Class 8 electric truck.


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Old 12-14-2017, 12:11 AM   #9
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Where did you read that? the ladson plant stuff?
gerrym51, It's not 2007 anymore. It came from remarks the CEO gave in Germany in a speech. But I think they are looking more forward than the internal combustion engine for Sprinters. Maybe that is not good for RVs and their long distance propensities but fits in well with the bulk of their sales in commercial vans in the cities.

You can get a lot of information from Mercedes Benz Global Media Site.

Daimler Global Media Site
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:23 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by gregmchugh View Post
There is a diesel option for the Transit van in North America...

The EcoBoost gas engine is generally preferred to the diesel but it has not been offered in the cutaway so the diesel is used in some of the Class C Transits, e.g., the Winnebago Paseo and the LTV Wonder...
Just to clarify, the Paseo is a Class B with the gasoline 3.5L twin turbo "ecoboost" engine.

Thor and the Winnebago Fuse Class Cs use the diesel.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:35 AM   #11
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.

There are good reasons MB is paring back on the diesels...

their new gas engines will have more power and more torque than the existing diesel engines,
with comparable fuel economy,
and reduced complexity.

The diesel all of a sudden became a "has been" engine for smaller vehicles.
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:48 AM   #12
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Just to clarify, the Paseo is a Class B with the gasoline 3.5L twin turbo "ecoboost" engine.

Thor and the Winnebago Fuse Class Cs use the diesel.
Yes, a typo, I meant the Fuse and corrected it...
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:55 AM   #13
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.

The news is going viral on various message boards.

This might impact their current diesel vehicle sales.

I wonder if this is the intended outcome.

What is going to happen to all the RV upfitters with Sprinter inventory?



What if the potential buyers got cold feet?

.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:54 PM   #14
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Default Mercedes ditching diesels in North America?

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Originally Posted by mlts22 View Post
Here is a blurb about it, that doesn't go into much details. If the article is correct, does this mean that Sprinters will be dropped from the market, or will M-B move to gasoline engines?
I believe that Driving.ca article is reading too much into one NHTSA document, which appears to be based on Mercedes ORG15146 submittal to NHTSA on Dec 7th that removed their last diesel passenger vehicle, the GLS350d, from the 2018 lineup. However that submittal covers only Class B thru F passenger vehicles under 8000 lb GVWR.

Mercedes Sprinter NHTSA data is submitted separately under the Daimler Trucks North America LLC organization. Their most recent ORG15024 submittal on Oct 25th for the Sprinter lists only the OM642 v6 diesel powertrain as follows: DAG MG5+MH5 Diesel HP 188 w/ ABS, ESC, and Brake Assist.

Volker Mornhinweg the head of Mercedes-Benz commercial vans division had previously disclosed that 2019 Sprinters would have a gasoline engine available in the US market. Whether a Sprinter diesel option will remain available for the US after 2018 is unclear. Currently Mercedes and Daimler have no 2019 model year submittals with NHTSA.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:04 PM   #15
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I believe that Driving.ca article is reading too much into one NHTSA document,
...
Whether a Sprinter diesel option will remain available for the US after 2018 is unclear. Currently Mercedes and Daimler have no 2019 model year submittals with NHTSA.
Yes. I am quite sure that absolute, final decisions have not been made, and even if they have, they are always subject to revision. Any given item like this is just a hint about the future.

But, there are a LOT of such hints around, and the scientific and political winds are blowing pretty hard.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:09 PM   #16
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Uncertainty is never a good marketing tool regardless. Also it is unlikely that the diesel fuel blends will get any better any time soon. Add a new gasoline engine to the mix and my guess would be that the already sparse group of experienced service people (who actually will choose to continue working on the diesel engine) may get even smaller. As a consumer, that along with resale value would be my concern(s). I would also guess that the 4 and 6 cylinder emission laden engines will never have the cult like following of the older 5 cylinders...
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:30 AM   #17
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this is informative and funny

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Old 12-15-2017, 12:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
.

There are good reasons MB is paring back on the diesels...

their new gas engines will have more power and more torque than the existing diesel engines,
with comparable fuel economy,
and reduced complexity.

The diesel all of a sudden became a "has been" engine for smaller vehicles.
Actually MB is not cutting back on New Diesels in NA anytime soon.Freightliner and Western Star trucks run MB diesels that are modified for those companies and I am not referring too pollution regulations
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by sheral View Post
Uncertainty is never a good marketing tool regardless. Also it is unlikely that the diesel fuel blends will get any better any time soon. Add a new gasoline engine to the mix and my guess would be that the already sparse group of experienced service people (who actually will choose to continue working on the diesel engine) may get even smaller. As a consumer, that along with resale value would be my concern(s). I would also guess that the 4 and 6 cylinder emission laden engines will never have the cult like following of the older 5 cylinders...
Here in Australia and outside of NA , Petrol( Gas engines) are going the way of the Dodo. Except for sedans , it is the reign of diesel for Trucks, Pickups and RV's
Diesel is increasingly being used for Pickups making up to over 99% of applications.
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Old 12-15-2017, 12:25 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Yes. I am quite sure that absolute, final decisions have not been made, and even if they have, they are always subject to revision. Any given item like this is just a hint about the future.

But, there are a LOT of such hints around, and the scientific and political winds are blowing pretty hard.
I think that is a NA thing. They want to ban ICE vehicles in some European Cities that is Petrol/ Diesel and replace them with EV's
What the US does will be out of step to what is happening elsewhere. As I have mentioned new diesels are being developed. CO2 emissions is a lot lower in Diesel vehicles.
Particulates are very much higher in the newer EFI Petrol engines. Will be interesting to see the outcomes
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