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Old 06-25-2014, 11:53 PM   #361
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

I was referring to another video that was posted here in Class B Forum on the Sprinter model. That video you just cited is dated in that it was made with 2007 and earlier chassis model Sprinters. However, there was no Mascoat, no floor insulation, no complete ceiling insulation other than about a 1/2 pad backing and about 1-1/2-2" of fiberglas mat wall insulation in that Chevy. If you want to believe a sales department on that R6 Mascoat claim have at it. Is it in writing?

A lot of people like their Roadtrek. I have no problem with that. They aren't bad but then few of any B converter can be bad. The video bares that out in that it is amazing what goes into building a B. You can't slap together a cheap box like a Class C. The CS is a departure from their historical design for that frig and microwave (i.e. RS Adventurous and the Chevys) but they still insist in putting that third seat in or empty space even if you don't want it. Customization still appears to be limited to what is established as "options". I'm more interested in fine tuning customization right down to picking my own finishes, plan layout, original beds, etc. I kind of have to rely on Advanced RV on the electrical systems and equipment but by all indications I can research they are not holding back on anything based on cost decisions or trying to keep it a mysterious proprietary undisclosed system. It seems to be based on what is all currently best though they have upfront stated why they are not using something because it is not proven, not really practical or is too plain costly. After driving and sitting in the back on a test drive of a VB Air Suspension Sprinter, costly as it is, we decided we definitely wanted it. No one else has that in America. If I wasn't so damned impatient now I think I would have liked the 4x4 coming available in 2015. You can order them now if you wanted. There was one other thing. After much agony we decided to go with an extended 24 ft. van. That extra 16" in the final analysis will gain much what I wanted in a B and return much more than adding a hitch cargo carrier on the back that adds 3-3.5 feet to an overall length. If I did not go with an extended van I would have had a hard time not just keeping what I have. It's been a great B. I kind of laid a lot of that out in my thread, Advancing Alvar.
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Old 06-26-2014, 04:53 PM   #362
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

The last making a Roadtrek video I saw, which was made about 3 weeks ago of a CS, I thought I was watching a video of Winnebago making the ERA. Nothing on the floor before the plywood was installed. Nothing on or in the walls before the premade stamped out non hardwood cabinetry was installed either.
Not saying the ERA models are better at all.

Humm, but interesting on the price difference between the CS & the ERA models though....
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Old 06-27-2014, 12:27 AM   #363
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Funny you all are arguing about such measly amounts of insulation. R6 is hardly noticeable.

Travel with the weather, and not against it, and it's not a problem. Properly sized HVAC and a heater and you can get by fine if the weather gives you a little surprise.

Until they can put in 2 to 3" thick spray-foam in the walls and ceiling, with thermo-pane windows, then I'm not impressed.

My cheap, ugly, poorly built, rolling torture chamber of a van was just fine last week in the 97 degree summer heat in Florida, running the AC on a 15 amp drop cord.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:25 AM   #364
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
Funny you all are arguing about such measly amounts of insulation. R6 is hardly noticeable.

Travel with the weather, and not against it, and it's not a problem. Properly sized HVAC and a heater and you can get by fine if the weather gives you a little surprise.

Until they can put in 2 to 3" thick spray-foam in the walls and ceiling, with thermo-pane windows, then I'm not impressed.

My cheap, ugly, poorly built, rolling torture chamber of a van was just fine last week in the 97 degree summer heat in Florida, running the AC on a 15 amp drop cord.

one person can do fine in a Travato- for 2 people would not work easily-even with the creatable up front bed.
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:03 AM   #365
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51
Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
Funny you all are arguing about such measly amounts of insulation. R6 is hardly noticeable.

Travel with the weather, and not against it, and it's not a problem. Properly sized HVAC and a heater and you can get by fine if the weather gives you a little surprise.

Until they can put in 2 to 3" thick spray-foam in the walls and ceiling, with thermo-pane windows, then I'm not impressed.

My cheap, ugly, poorly built, rolling torture chamber of a van was just fine last week in the 97 degree summer heat in Florida, running the AC on a 15 amp drop cord.

one person can do fine in a Travato- for 2 people would not work easily-even with the creatable up front bed.
If you like spooning, you'd be fine.
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Old 06-27-2014, 01:48 PM   #366
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51
Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
Funny you all are arguing about such measly amounts of insulation. R6 is hardly noticeable.

Travel with the weather, and not against it, and it's not a problem. Properly sized HVAC and a heater and you can get by fine if the weather gives you a little surprise.

Until they can put in 2 to 3" thick spray-foam in the walls and ceiling, with thermo-pane windows, then I'm not impressed.

My cheap, ugly, poorly built, rolling torture chamber of a van was just fine last week in the 97 degree summer heat in Florida, running the AC on a 15 amp drop cord.

one person can do fine in a Travato- for 2 people would not work easily-even with the creatable up front bed.
If you like spooning, you'd be fine.


going on a month tour in a 'B' is close quarters enough-in the Travato's configuation i think it would be a nightmare(at least for us). For a single person i think it would be fine.
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Old 07-03-2014, 04:09 PM   #367
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Thought some of you might find this tidbit in the roadtreking.com forum interesting.

http://roadtreking.com/forum/charge-...tor-t1222.html
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:22 PM   #368
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

there is a fabco powermite regulator listed in this pdf


http://www.fabcopower.com/manuals/Power ... Manual.pdf


i have changed my opinion after studying this. it is a true AC generator. It is not a DC alternator. I am going to get this instead of the Onan.


or this one -Roadtrekkeeps changing manufacturers-principle th same though

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... Generators
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:36 PM   #369
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

I think if any competitor really wanted to know what is in an E-trek they would just buy one Or maybe even rent one. My guess is that it is more of a wait and see if the majority of customers want to go all electric or not (and what would they be willing to pay for it). If people want all electric then the manufacturers will build what people want.

There's a forum poll question from 2009: Would you purchase an "All Appliances Electric RV? link: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=25&t=1162

In 2012 the results were 65% no and 35% yes. Now it is 63% no and 37% yes.

There's a good mix available in the Class B marketplace right now. Something for everyone.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:47 PM   #370
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

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Originally Posted by markopolo
I think if any competitor really wanted to know what is in an E-trek they would just buy one Or maybe even rent one. My guess is that it is more of a wait and see if the majority of customers want to go all electric or not (and what would they be willing to pay for it). If people want all electric then the manufacturers will build what people want.

There's a forum poll question from 2009: Would you purchase an "All Appliances Electric RV? link: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=25&t=1162

In 2012 the results were 65% no and 35% yes. Now it is 63% no and 37% yes.

There's a good mix available in the Class B marketplace right now. Something for everyone.

Marko-when it first came out it seemed to gimmicky to me and based on past experience and knowledge the battery issue seemed beyond doubt.

now however after studying this i have decided to go with the all-electric crowd. However I will be a true 'tourer' not multi day sitting in one place camper.

also based on what I have learned the engine generator is a true generator and produces AC watts. I thought it was a classic DC alternator that fed inverter.I was wrong. is it perfect. The answer is NO. However people look for ways to avoid using the Onan generator.

I am going to have this on a GAS engine. I still think excessive idling with a diesel is asking for EGR and DPF problems. some possible issue with idling gas also-but usually not as severe.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:03 PM   #371
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlo
Thought some of you might find this tidbit in the roadtreking.com forum interesting.

http://roadtreking.com/forum/charge-...tor-t1222.html
That was a piss-poor answer by RoadtrekJoe. Reminds me of that old sexual joke, "Trust me, I won't..." Anyway they sure are an arrogant bunch after making those initial claims of 9 hours of AC. Could the real truth be they don't have it right yet and are still changing things up?

Actually, in my new Advanced RV I have that same basic question as ArlWilliams asked but I haven't gotten around to asking it yet as I don't fully understand the addition of a second alternator and what it is suppose to gain. I know though it would be answered as they have laid everything out to everyone already at the Advanced RV Fest & Open House including on what they are working on for the future. Maybe others already know. I've always been a bit electrically dyslexic.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #372
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

This topic: Under the hood generators, dual alternators etc....... http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...php?f=9&t=2668 might interest you Gerry.

Way back, I thought RT was going to use a Fabco Power-Mite because one was shown in the E-Trek promo video. A Fabco Power-Mite would be harder to implement than a 2nd DC alternator. It doesn't regulate frequency (other than by RPM). I think you'd have to set it up right for RV use. You can get an optional voltage regulator for the Fabco but I think you'd need to control the frequency for appliances in the RV. 60 Hz is what you want to have, just like grid power.

From the Fabco installation manual:

Quote:
If you have a specific use for 60 cycle frequency, the shaft of
the AC generator must turn at 3600 RPM, at this speed the
AC generator will produce exactly 60 cycles.

Note: The engine speed would be approximately 1200 to 1600 rpm to
obtain 60 cycles at full load. If the engine is equipped with a tachometer
it would not give a true indication of the AC generators output frequency
because of different pulley sizes. The shaft speed of the Power-
Mite™ must be turning at exactly 3600 rpm. The speed can be measured
by using a stroboscopic thahometer or by plugging an AC frequency
meter into the power outlet.
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Old 07-03-2014, 06:59 PM   #373
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Marko-whether roadtrek is using the Fabco powermite or other brand does not make a differnce to me except in the end result.

the reason I changed my mind is when I read the Powermite instllation and user manual.

under questions it was asked.

can the powermite directly recharge a battery.

the answer was NO. How every the powermite can directly power a multistage charger that will charge the battery.

This is finally when the light went on in my head. I kept thinking this was just a bigger DC alternator. Now i understand that the powermite(or its equivalent ) is powering the charger thats in the inverter system. the current inverter/charger they are now using is 70 amps.combined with the already in engine DC alternator i can see this working

I believe the 'roadtrek black box" is controlling these multiple power sources at same time'this is where all the fast charging comes from-i did not understand before. i'm sure you and some of th others did but i did not.
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Old 07-03-2014, 07:45 PM   #374
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Gerry - what I'm trying to say here is that installing and using an under-the-hood AC generator is not as easy as using a larger DC alternator or dual alternators. I think the second under-the-hood "generator" in the E-trek is an auxiliary DC alternator. Someone please correct me if that is wrong.

I'd pick a single higher capacity alternator or even two alternators for the ease of implementation over an AC generator. I can't see why you wouldn't simply feed it (DC alternator) to an inverter (via batteries) for AC.

The AC generators you referenced would require that you fairly precisely control the van engine RPM. You can't do that when you are driving. Some people would run a fridge off AC or the coach air conditioner on AC or a crock pot for example when driving. You wouldn't be able to do that with the Fabco unit. The frequency (Hz) would be up and down as your RPM's went up and down.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:34 PM   #375
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Marko- the E-trek manual says you must rev engine to 2500 rpm for 30 seconds before charging will begin. this leads me to believe it can't just be another DC alternator.


the roadtrek literature also always describes it as watts. would'nt a dc alternator be described as amps? the description of 3500 upt to 5500 seem to be describing AC belt mounted generator.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:47 PM   #376
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

I've assumed that the under-the-hood power source is a DC alternator. This is based on the fact that the inverter/charger does not need to be turned on for the under-the-hood power source to charge the battery bank. I was told by a factory contact at Roadtrek that there is a direct connection from the "second generator" to the battery bank, but they seem not to distinguish between alternator/generator when discussing the E-Trek. The contact also stated that the engine should be revved "to 2500 rpms for a few seconds" to engage the second generator.

Whatever they are doing, as an E-Trek owner, I can tell you that the batteries recharge incredibly quickly. I guess this (and the fact that the 6-year warranty covers the batteries) is all I should really care about, but it would be interesting to have some details.
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Old 07-03-2014, 08:54 PM   #377
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

arlo when you say the inverter/charger is offi s that the whole unit/ doesn't shutting off inverter not necessearily shut off the charger? just wondering-trying to pick up -clues


this leads me to believe it is AC generator


Engine Mounted Generator: The 3.0 litre Mercedes diesel engine is used as the power plant to feed the electrical system, running everything when driving or parked. At idle it feeds 3.5 KW of power. When driving, it is even more powerful and charges at 5.5 KW. The Mercedes engine will run reliably to operate the vehicle, and your generator when needed.



and what does this mean from the e-trek questions and answers

The Mercedes diesel engine drives the generator when running and the resulting 3500 watt electrical output (at idle) is sent directly to the inverter and the batteries. It provides higher levels of output when driving.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:16 PM   #378
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

The inverter/charger is completely off as far as I can tell -- switch is off, fan is off, display is off. To charge from shore power the inverter/charger must be on. This is what led to my question and RT's response referred to in last post.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:21 PM   #379
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

The "rev engine to 2500 rpm for 30 seconds before charging will begin" is a real clue that it is a 1-wire alternator.
That's how you get a 1-wire alternator to start output. More likely only a few seconds would be needed. You have to get the revs up to start it.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:27 PM   #380
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Default Re: New Roadtrek RS E-Trek

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
The "rev engine to 2500 rpm for 30 seconds before charging will begin" is a real clue that it is a 1-wire alternator.
That's how you get a 1-wire alternator to start output. More likely only a few seconds would be needed. You have to get the revs up to start it.

Marko -you da man. i am learning.


i googled alternator and 2500 rpm and get a gazilion pages. you and Arlo were right . I was wrong.
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