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Old 09-26-2020, 09:22 AM   #1
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Default Portable Battery Power Station

On Bs that come with a 11K BTU AC, in theory it can run on AC power from something like a Yeti 3000x. I don't recommend it due to the size, but has anyone tried to use something like a 1400x and plug it in at night so it will give you a few hours after the generator is off.

With the right adapter, you can charge it backup in a 10-20 hours from your car's DC port while it is moving. If you want to use your onboard batteries, there are ways for you to keep topping off the Yeti too. Has anyone done it?
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Old 09-29-2020, 10:03 PM   #2
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On Bs that come with a 11K BTU AC, in theory it can run on AC power from something like a Yeti 3000x. I don't recommend it due to the size, but has anyone tried to use something like a 1400x and plug it in at night so it will give you a few hours after the generator is off.

With the right adapter, you can charge it backup in a 10-20 hours from your car's DC port while it is moving. If you want to use your onboard batteries, there are ways for you to keep topping off the Yeti too. Has anyone done it?
You might have already answered that question with your statement about charging it back up from the DC Port while you are driving 10-20 hours.

There may be utility in using it is an adjunct with a high enough quality, larger battery bank.

Especially if you are driving even 10 hours per day & there is minimal use of other on board equipment.

Have you spoken directly with the Technical People at Goal Zero?

https://www.goalzero.com/shop/portab...power-station/

It certainly looks impressed, I might get a couple of the larger units at the ranch but not for running a 11k btu AC unit.

I have a feeling the Manager is going to say "There are better ways for our needs ..."
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Old 09-29-2020, 10:23 PM   #3
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That unit is quite expensive for it's capacity and it would probably run the AC for under 3 hours if full when starting. It also is rated at only 500 cycles to 80% discharge, which is very low for lithium compared to the LiFePO4 batteries.
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Old 09-29-2020, 10:58 PM   #4
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That unit is quite expensive for it's capacity and it would probably run the AC for under 3 hours if full when starting. It also is rated at only 500 cycles to 80% discharge, which is very low for lithium compared to the LiFePO4 batteries.
Booster what is the calculation to determine such cost/investment?

At say 50% discharge for AGMs, 80% for Lithium?

For either this product or lithium & agm batteries*

ie; total unit cost in dollars ($3199) ÷ by 500 cycles (80 or 50%) = (?)

I know it is much more nuanced than that & not everyone would be running a 11k btu unit for 3 hours per night, if they were all tear round it would calculate to one year, 3 months
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Old 09-29-2020, 11:43 PM   #5
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Booster what is the calculation to determine such cost/investment?

At say 50% discharge for AGMs, 80% for Lithium?

For either this product or lithium & agm batteries*

ie; total unit cost in dollars ($3199) ÷ by 500 cycles (80 or 50%) = (?)

I know it is much more nuanced than that & not everyone would be running a 11k btu unit for 3 hours per night, if they were all tear round it would calculate to one year, 3 months

The unit is 3032 watt hours of energy or 220ah of lithium battery at 13.8v or 250ah at 12.2v.



The show a $3200 price so that would $13.78 per AH at 13.8v. This is typical of lithium voltage a spec and would $1378.00 per 100AH which is a lot more than some other lithium batteries.


At only 500 cycles to 80% down that is $6.40 per cycle. If it was running AC and 3 hours of AC per cycle is correct it would cost $2.13 per hour to run the AC and that doesn't include the cost of recharging if you a source you have pay for.


Compare that to a LiFePO4 battery with 100AH capacity at 13.8v. Probably $900 and 2000 rated cycles at 80% down. That is $8.18 per AH of energy and $.45 per cycle. Very big difference.


Compare to a 110AH at 12v AGM of good quality. Probably $300 and rated at 550 cycles at 80% discharge. That is $2.73 per AH and $.54 per cycle. Cheaper buy in per AH but a bit higher cost per cycle than the LiFePO4 battery but much better than the first example of interest.


The AGM would show lower costs in overall energy at 50% discharge by about 15% but your buy in cost would be more to get the same capacity and you would by hauling around more weight.
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Old 09-30-2020, 12:05 AM   #6
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The unit is 3032 watt hours of energy or 220ah of lithium battery at 13.8v or 250ah at 12.2v.



The show a $3200 price so that would $13.78 per AH at 13.8v. This is typical of lithium voltage a spec and would $1378.00 per 100AH which is a lot more than some other lithium batteries.


At only 500 cycles to 80% down that is $6.40 per cycle. If it was running AC and 3 hours of AC per cycle is correct it would cost $2.13 per hour to run the AC and that doesn't include the cost of recharging if you a source you have pay for.


Compare that to a LiFePO4 battery with 100AH capacity at 13.8v. Probably $900 and 2000 rated cycles at 80% down. That is $8.18 per AH of energy and $.45 per cycle. Very big difference.


Compare to a 110AH at 12v AGM of good quality. Probably $300 and rated at 550 cycles at 80% discharge. That is $2.73 per AH and $.54 per cycle. Cheaper buy in per AH but a bit higher cost per cycle than the LiFePO4 battery but much better than the first example of interest.


The AGM would show lower costs in overall energy at 50% discharge by about 15% but your buy in cost would be more to get the same capacity and you would by hauling around more weight.
Thank you Booster, an excellent answer as always.

Lately there has been so much marketing of what they try to pass off as Solar Generators versus a more accurate description as a Portable Power Bank.

They don't generate anything until they have been charged. Then they are just a Battery Storage Device.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:24 AM   #7
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Goal Zero products are not cheap, they are just easy to deal with. That's all there is to it. So on this rental rig, I would be able to plug my Goal Zero 1400 in to power all the lights and charge the battery. I would not be able to run the AC and probably not the microwave. I am guessing inverter fuse will pop if I try. You could definitely use a 30a adapter to regular 110 house outlet

I did more research, it appears I can power everything except the AC (this is gas stove) as most loads are likely under 1500W
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:28 AM   #8
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The Yeti would be outside of the RV and that could present a theft risk depending where you are parked.

There will be efficiency losses due to it going from DC (lithium cells) to AC (inverter in Yeti) then back to DC again (converter/charger in RV). Maybe 15% capacity reduction ....... ? Just a guess there.

That said, plugging the RV into the Yeti should work as you describe and the easiest way (maybe only way) to do it because the "12V" from a Yeti is lower than automotive/RV "12V". The Yeti nominal voltage is 10.8V and there's a converter cable for the 1400 (boost converter) to get that up to 12V. RV "12V" ranges from 12.8V fully charged down to something like 11.6V when 80% discharged. The Yeti's lower "12V" lacks the force required to charge automotive/RV "12V".
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:51 AM   #9
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On Bs that come with a 11K BTU AC, in theory it can run on AC power from something like a Yeti 3000x. I don't recommend it due to the size, but has anyone tried to use something like a 1400x and plug it in at night so it will give you a few hours after the generator is off.

With the right adapter, you can charge it backup in a 10-20 hours from your car's DC port while it is moving. If you want to use your onboard batteries, there are ways for you to keep topping off the Yeti too. Has anyone done it?
I ran my Dometic AC(with easy start) from a 400ah lithium bank(Victron 12/3000watt inverter) on my van. According to Victron 712 BMS. It takes over 1.1-1.2 KWH to run it. So you would get less than 2hours running continuously. The higher the draw reduces the capacity of the bank. Yes, it would work but not for very long. If you run your batteries to zero, you greatly reduce their life.

I just had the Dometic AC replaced with Houghton Belaire 3400. It takes 0.9KWH to run it. If it runs continuously. I will bet around 3 hours before hitting 20 percent reserve. I will be going to Arizona next week and testing it in 100 degrees with just battery power. I want to be able to run 5 hours plus. Will be determining how much to increase battery bank afterwards. I am thinking about doubling to 800ah? Again I do not want to run batteries to zero. If one keeps above 30 percent. The number of recharge and life of batteries is greatly increased.
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Old 09-30-2020, 02:25 PM   #10
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That said, plugging the RV into the Yeti should work as you describe and the easiest way (maybe only way) to do it because the "12V" from a Yeti is lower than automotive/RV "12V". The Yeti nominal voltage is 10.8V and there's a converter cable for the 1400 (boost converter) to get that up to 12V. RV "12V" ranges from 12.8V fully charged down to something like 11.6V when 80% discharged. The Yeti's lower "12V" lacks the force required to charge automotive/RV "12V".
Plugging a Yeti into the house battery is the use case I'm thinking of, with the idea of just adding 12V capacity, not trying to charge anything. I'd be drawing power from the DC side, not using the inverter.

Sounds like without the boost converter that's a non-starter.
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Old 09-30-2020, 03:09 PM   #11
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That cable was for the Yeti 1400. The newer X series like 1500X might have the regulated 12V output built in but it's still probably only 12.0V or so. Best to check with Goal Zero.

The 3 Lipo or NMC cells in the in series in the Yeti units results in the 10.8V nominal DC output.

In RV's, 4 LFP (LiFePO4) cells in series gives you 12.8V nominal. The usable voltage range is 13.4V+ down to some point below 12.8V so that fits in well with the DC voltage typically associated with RV use. The "12V" drop-in type LFP batteries have the 4 series connection already done internally so you end up with 12.8V nominal.
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Old 09-30-2020, 03:24 PM   #12
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............................ I am thinking about doubling to 800ah? Again I do not want to run batteries to zero. If one keeps above 30 percent. The number of recharge and life of batteries is greatly increased.
Another thing thing to factor in: Is it Pay Now (add 400Ah now) or Pay Later (replace the batteries later when used up) ............ The pay later might be a decade later with LFP. Calendar aging is a factor to consider with lithium and that's in addition to capacity loss from actually using the batteries. Link: https://www.google.com/search?&q=lifepo4+calendar+aging

Definitely post the results of your testing. That will be interesting to read through.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:24 PM   #13
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I ran my Dometic AC(with easy start) from a 400ah lithium bank(Victron 12/3000watt inverter) on my van. According to Victron 712 BMS. It takes over 1.1-1.2 KWH to run it. So you would get less than 2hours running continuously. The higher the draw reduces the capacity of the bank. Yes, it would work but not for very long. If you run your batteries to zero, you greatly reduce their life.

I just had the Dometic AC replaced with Houghton Belaire 3400. It takes 0.9KWH to run it. If it runs continuously. I will bet around 3 hours before hitting 20 percent reserve. I will be going to Arizona next week and testing it in 100 degrees with just battery power. I want to be able to run 5 hours plus. Will be determining how much to increase battery bank afterwards. I am thinking about doubling to 800ah? Again I do not want to run batteries to zero. If one keeps above 30 percent. The number of recharge and life of batteries is greatly increased.
Have any of you considered the merits of this product;

https://www.zerobreeze.com/?gclid=Cj...BoCYPgQAvD_BwE

You can purchase it with one or two batteries or no batteries & have it connected to your electrical grid like this guy has done here.

https://youtu.be/R4O_u6c8Jnk

At 12.25 - 14.45 he describes & demonstrates the set up & from 19.43 he shows you how he has added the vent ducting in & out through the rear floor of his rig for air.

Also its a fairly sophisticated rig with lithium & all the bells & whistles which although they touch on throughout the video, its detailed at 17.41 his 600 watts, Renogy 60amp dc to dc charger, 3000 watt inverter charger, etc.

Its more of a local cooling effect such as your sleeping area versus the entire rig by dropping the temperature by 30% or more.

Without the humidity issues of the $2000 plus Fresair unit that yairguy mentioned creates a lot of humidity as it is essentially a Swamp Cooler.
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:45 PM   #14
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Have any of you considered the merits of this product;

https://www.zerobreeze.com/?gclid=Cj...BoCYPgQAvD_BwE

You can purchase it with one or two batteries or no batteries & have it connected to your electrical grid like this guy has done here.

https://youtu.be/R4O_u6c8Jnk

At 12.25 - 14.45 he describes & demonstrates the set up & from 19.43 he shows you how he has added the vent ducting in & out through the rear floor of his rig for a.

Also its a fairly sophisticated rig with lithium & all the bells & whistles which although they touch on throughout the video, its detailed at 17.41 his 600 watts, Renogy 60amp dc to dc charger, 3000 watt inverter charger, etc.



Without the humidity issues of the $2000 plus Fresair unit that yairguy mentioned creates a lot of humidity as it is essentially a Swamp Cooler.

I have not used the Houghton Belaire much yet. Will be using in Arizona next week. Some testing in high heat camping. User posted on FB Travato. He uses it 24/7 in Florida. A great feature of the HB3400 is it has a air drying feature. It will remove the humidity so air becomes much dryer. Actually, unit is both act and heat function. I did not know about this until after install. Personally, I would have purchase the HB 3500l. HB3500 is ac only no heat. It is 20 lbs lighter and $400.00 less expensive. If I needed a replacement today, I would purchase the HB3500.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:09 PM   #15
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I have not used the Houghton Belaire much yet. Will be using in Arizona next week. Some testing in high heat camping. User posted on FB Travato. He uses it 24/7 in Florida. A great feature of the HB3400 is it has a air drying feature. It will remove the humidity so air becomes much dryer. Actually, unit is both act and heat function. I did not know about this until after install. Personally, I would have purchase the HB 3500l. HB3500 is ac only no heat. It is 20 lbs lighter and $400.00 less expensive. If I needed a replacement today, I would purchase the HB3500.
Maybe fir $400 they might let you trade up?

I do know the ZeroBreeze has a humidity button also but it sounds like it canot compare to your Houghtin Bellaire with Ful Rig Efficiency.

Its benefits reside in its ability to operate without a generator or sgore power plus its portability & the fact it can be powered by its own clip on battery or batteries for 5 or 10 hours. The effective cooling area only being 25-40sq feet & a 30° function in heat locally.

Did some research, more to come, it appears that Advanced RV are Gung ho about the Houghton Belaire.
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:17 PM   #16
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Will be great to hear your experience.

Was your purchase due to replacing a defunct OEM AC Unit & if so, from whst manufacturer, model & year?

And are they made as a replacement, slide in, minimal reconfiguration type unit thst is also more EFFICIENT & QUIETER?
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Old 10-02-2020, 05:35 AM   #17
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I am sitting at a state park, this stupid rig doesn’t have an inverter setup and now I can’t run the tv and 110 because I don’t have generator running or ac plugged in. If I only had my goal zero with me, I would be able to get through tonight. It’s not going to run air conditioning, but 1.4kw is a a few hours of accessories I bet
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Old 10-02-2020, 06:03 AM   #18
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I am sitting at a state park, this stupid rig doesn’t have an inverter setup and now I can’t run the tv and 110 because I don’t have generator running or ac plugged in. If I only had my goal zero with me, I would be able to get through tonight. It’s not going to run air conditioning, but 1.4kw is a a few hours of accessories I bet
TV is over rated.

Hold your position.

Maintain your perimeter out to 600 yards as we coming in hot.

We are sending a team in to get you.

In the meantime, we can talk you through the night.

Charlie out your Call Sign will be WONTREADBOOKS.

I really think that ZeroBreeze might be the ideal product for you, of you get 2 batteries it 10 hours on high AC with a local.25-40 square feet. No humidity produced as it doesn't use water.
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Old 10-02-2020, 06:18 AM   #19
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on post #13 there is a link to a very cool van build where at minute 12.25 to 14.30 he presents how he integrated the Zero Breeze connected to his own lithium set up.

Later on he shows how he mounted the vents/ducts through the floor
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Old 10-02-2020, 01:59 PM   #20
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Thank you Booster, an excellent answer as always.

Lately there has been so much marketing of what they try to pass off as Solar Generators versus a more accurate description as a Portable Power Bank.

They don't generate anything until they have been charged. Then they are just a Battery Storage Device.
It isn't just "Lately", it has been going on for a very long time. Look at their idea of a heat pump!!! A heating element inside the air conditioner!!! Not a true heat pump.
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