Roadtrek and Hymer

[sunwater]

I imagine the visible branding would say only "Hymer."

[avanti]

Actually, my guess is that the "Roadtrek" brand is the main thing that Hymer is looking to get from the deal.

[sunwater]

That would be crazy. Hymer has been explicit for years about wanting to sell in the U.S. under its own name. And from what I've seen of Roadtreks, Hymer has them beat on quality and innovative design. But Promaster-based Hymers built by Roadtrek will, I bet, carry a higher MSRP than Roadtrek's own Zion.

Roadtrek & Erwin Hymer Group Sign Cooperation Agreement | Roadtrek

Oops, that press release on Roadtrek's site is what RV Business quoted verbatim this morning. But note it says, "under the Hymer brand."

EDIT: As wincrasher comments early in this thread, I bet beside the conversion expertise Roadtrek has with a platform that Hymer already uses in Europe, partnering with Roadtrek, even if it's a Canadian company, will also give them a ready made distribution network in the U.S., something they may have been struggling to establish on their own until now.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by sunwater

......something they've probably been struggling to establish up until now.

Part of that struggle may be - purely a conjecture on my part - that many dealers not only sell Class B's , but also Class A and C and trailers. Hymer Group has many brands (and Class A, C and Trailers) in Europe. It would not surprise me that American RV manufacturers are not exactly looking forward to a company like Hymer getting a foothold in NA and may be discouraging dealers from adding a brand like Hymer. Class B is a small market compared to Class A, C and trailers.

Just a thought.

[sunwater]

Originally Posted by BobB

It would not surprise me that American RV manufacturers are not exactly looking forward to a company like Hymer getting a foothold in NA...

haha, I bet!

[sunwater]

maybe even currency exchange rates have something to do with Hymer abruptly switching horses and going with a Canadian partner. I think the Euro is still pretty strong against the Canadian dollar, while it's lost ground against the U.S. dollar over the last year. Hymer might have decided their start-up Euros would go farther, and their sales margins increase significantly in the U.S. (and subsequent USD profits go farther upon reinvestment in Canada), if they bought and converted Promasters in Canada rather than in the U.S.

[BobB]

Originally Posted by sunwater

maybe even currency exchange rates have something to do with Hymer abruptly switching horses and going with a Canadian partner. The Euro is still gaining strength against the Canadian dollar, while it's lost strength against the U.S. dollar over the last year. Hymer might have decided their Euros would go farther, and their sales margins increase significantly in the U.S., if they bought and converted Promasters in Canada rather than in the U.S.

In the "short" game, I think exchange rates matter, but in the "long" game (and Hymer goes way back - 90+ years) I think they see the US market as having real long term potential, especially Class A and C. Exchange rates will always fluctuate and/or toggle back and forth. I think their strategy is thinking decades not years.

It took Euro and Asian auto manufacturers decades to get established in the US; eventually they started building vehicles here. Yes, the vehicle numbers are greater than RV numbers, but still....

[sunwater]

That also sounds logical for long-term consideration. Hymer's class A production for North America, assuming it's still on the table, will surely be Spartan Motors/U.S. based.

[wincrasher]

I wonder if it's a real possibility that they will just import them now, and not build in NA. If they have idle production capacity in Europe, it could make some sense.

[sunwater]

The final key to the puzzle that triggered Hymer's commitment to sell a B-class model here was Ram's stateside launch of a rebadged--and U.S. emissions certified--Fiat Ducato, which was Hymer's preferred class B platform. The Ducato itself might very well not meet more stringent U.S. emissions standards. And even it did, for import purposes the van would be considered a commercial truck, and thus be subject to the still-in-effect 25% chicken tax. The only way around that would be disassembly in Europe and reassembly here, as Mercedes does with their Sprinters (a big reason behind Daimler's plan to start work on a Sprinter factory in South Carolina next year).

[gregmchugh]

Then again, there could be nothing more to this than exactly what it says in their joint press release...

[GeorgeB]

Originally Posted by BobB

I don't think RT will have choice regarding culture IMO. It will be David and Goliath and I am putting my bets on Goliath.

That's BREAKING NEWS!

I agree, that it won't be easy to "merge" their very different culture? RT is still in the Flinstone age, compare to Hymer's more sophisticated design standards and highly industrialised production facilities. Esthetically, it will be interesting to see if Hymer will impose their standards or adapt them to the very conservative north american market. They will have to convince RT's network of dealers and customers in the US to sell their new "euro-campers", manufactured in Canada, built on Fiat/Promaster chassis. At least they have national parks names!

In Europe, Hymer is not like Westfalia and knows how to offer products targeted to a broad range of customers. Hopefully it will succeed in shifting the state of North American RV industry to a badly needed design-oriented culture.

Looking forward to see the offsprings of this suprising new union!

[sunwater]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

Hopefully it will succeed in shifting the state of North American RV industry to a badly needed design-oriented culture.

Hurrah for that! If only it could be....

[mlts22]

Any change is good. Already, we are seeing all the big names starting to make "B"s. Forest River is back in the game again, for example. After a generation or two, hopefully we will see "B"s on, or at least near par with the European counterparts.

[gregmchugh]

The new Coachman Class B is nothing to sneeze at. Look at the FitRV video review. They have upped their game.

[wincrasher]

Word has it that RT is revealing a new floor plan today at Louisville. JH told me in Sept that they were working on a 59k type plan, only "better". Maybe it wouldn't be shocking if it were a Hymer.

[markopolo]

The news release said Hymer would offer the Grand Canyon and the longer Yellowstone. I like the Yellowstone floorplan with twin beds.

Layouts & Data

Hymer Yellowstone.JPG

There's already a very similar layout available from Safari Condo with their Promaster Flex twin bed option.

Ram - ProMaster FLEX

Safari Condo Promaster Flex.JPG

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by mlts22

Any change is good. Already, we are seeing all the big names starting to make "B"s. Forest River is back in the game again, for example. After a generation or two, hopefully we will see "B"s on, or at least near par with the European counterparts.

LOL. My expections of quality from Forest River would be extremely low. Many more may jump into a hot market - with the run-up in prices they can make a quick buck. But it's hard to escape poor quality track records that companies like Thor, Forest River and Coachmen enjoy.

A high-quality B is much more than fancy cabinetry and glossy finishes.

[BobB]

Markopolo

What's nice about the Safari Promaster Flex is there are three (3) bed options! Same overall front dinette/midbath + galley, but 3 bed options.

Different strokes for different folks. Options are good.

Personally, I am looking for the transverse rear double on a short length Promaster, like the Adria Twin series. Really like the maneuverability of shorter lengths - probably too used to our VW EVC, only 17ft.

[B Eventually]

The FitRV is at the RVIA show right now and has posted 3 photos so far of the Hymer Grand Canyon. Hopefully they'll have the chance to take some video as well.