Safety; is diesel safer than gasoline?

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bud

"OK, I just read that article and it could have been written as a science paper by a sixth grader with internet access in 15 minutes."

You exaggerated booster. It was not that good.

It reads like some kind of really horribly written propaganda maybe?

Maybe the person was drinking and tried to see what they could get by the editor. Except that the editor never read it.

It reminded me of the "tech papers" that would appear in the manufacturing and engineering publications of years past before the internet. Always touted and were highly biased toward technology of a company or process that coincidentally was available from a heavy advertiser in the publication.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Not so fast....read this article below....

https://www.motor.com/2021/03/is-diesel-dying/

I know many of you simply "hate diesels"... and think they are obsolete technology. This is simply not true.

I imagine that a lot of you have never owned or driven one.... that's unfortunate.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Not so fast....read this article below....

https://www.motor.com/2021/03/is-diesel-dying/

I know many of you simply "hate diesels"... and think they are obsolete technology. This is simply not true.

I imagine that a lot of you have never owned or driven one.... that's unfortunate.

Not so fast on what? This is a trucking industry provider of information and data tools.



Here is a quote about one of their products which is mainly only to make money.

Promote

Whether you are a digital publisher, parts manufacturer or retailer, fleet management systems provider, tool and equipment manufacturer or anyone whose website engages trucking professionals, we have simple linking tools to help you monetize advertising on your website.

So, they are very heavily reliant on diesel to not go away and make their living off them.


Not unbiased at all, more like bought and paid for like so many of these articles.


I don't hate diesels, I have driven plenty of them. They certainly still have a place a in the market, but they are not cure all for everything or without problems. They do have a bit of an edge on miles per dollar of fuel, but that has shrunk with the emissions controls it appears. They will continue to be around, particularly in heavy vehicles, but they and gasoline will be going away over time IMO.


What I take issue with are the ridiculous claims made in the links given that grossly overstate the benefits of diesel over other fuel and technologies, that are being made by "experts" who live off of diesel products or advertising.

[mkguitar]

"...Outside of its harmful environmental side effects, it truly is the perfect fuel for long-haul trucking applications. "


a gem of a statement


the article appears to posit possible future changes/developments- not where we are today


mike

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mkguitar

"...Outside of its harmful environmental side effects, it truly is the perfect fuel for long-haul trucking applications. "


a gem of a statement

Heh... Thanks for quoting this. I have stopped following these ridiculous links, and that really is a gem.

kind of like:
"Outside of its harmful environmental side effects, DDT truly is the perfect insecticide.

or
"...asbestos truly is the perfect insulation..."

or
"...PCBs truly are the perfect dielectric"

[Davydd]

I chose a MB Sprinter, not for the engine which have been almost all diesels so far (there are some gas engines out there not in any significant manner), but for many other overwhelming reasons.

Choice of upfit converter is number 1 and I have progressively gone through three whose flagship Class Bs were Sprinters. That progressivity enabled me to have creative control in design of what I wanted, and not just what was offered. Affordability is an issue for many I know. I can afford it and custom design is not cheap. So what can I say?

Cab comfort and ergonomics is number 2 and I am thankful for it because I tend to drive, a lot and for a long time.

I'm design sensitive by education and training so design (yes, subjective) is number 3. Sprinters to me just look better and have a sensitivity relationship to other vehicles in the MB family which are considered a cut above luxury cars. Yes, I had Dodge and Freightliner badging on two of my Sprinters but didn't succumb to rebadging when it was popular at the time. The design has improved over time.

That said, I had to live with the engine that came with that criteria. The only benefits I derived from diesel is the higher mileage which translated for me in greater range between fill-ups. The mostly end pump islands are convenient to get into and are less used. I derive heat and hotwater from diesel for the van. Most in the past used another, propane, that I don't need. I have a 330w Delco-Remy second alternator to fast charge my house batteries which I don't think you could even install in a Promaster. Don't know about the Transit. The 20,000 mile service intervals are extremely nice and convenient and I have an MB dealer near my home. I have a great warranty from MB. 5 years, 100,000 miles on engine and drive train is worth it and I am usually looking for the next Class B before then just because.

The debits of diesel? I do hate the dirty, greasy pump handles. I do get aggravated at filling stations that only have gasoline. DEF is an issue for many, but fortunately in 175,000+ miles driven with DEF I've never had an issue. I've had NOX sensors replaced, but under warranty at no cost to me. MB has improved the DEF situation on new Sprinters where I don't think it is an issue anymore. Adding DEF by myself every 7,000 miles or so is not that difficult.

Gasoline and diesel engines may be dinosaurs anyway not worth arguing over if governments have their way. I'm on the fence of wait and see if that comes about and probably will not have to worry about it in my lifetime or my remaining RV days.

[jakegw2]

Well DDT is on the short list of chemicals that have saved the most human lives by eliminating malaria in much of the western world, so there is that.

On the other hand there is some pretty good evidence that it caused developmental deformities in the spinal cord that allowed the widespread and very common polio virus to suddenly start to infect the CNS, leading to the polio epidemic (e.g. Polio outbreaks were correlated to areas that used DDT, affected mainly children exposed to DDT, affected mainly children that spent time in farming areas, is known to cause developmental defects in many species, etc).

I could go on about asbestos, but the bottom line is that all these substances, including diesel fuel have some pretty complicated tradeoffs to balance.

[rstl99]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Despite the extra maintenance and other expenses for my turbo diesel Mercedes Benz, I'm finding that diesel not only has better fuel economy than gasoline, but, it's also less combustible than a typical gasoline powered vehicle.

Sure, every now and then you hear about a fuel tanker accident, but, how many times have you heard about a diesel vehicle catching on fire.

Diesel fuel doesn't ignite as easily as gasoline.

Plus, other things you might not be aware of..

https://rentar.com/diesel-engines-ge...etrol-engines/

Maybe, aside from an electric vehicle, diesels are actually a good alternative for the environment?

About the original question, diesel is DEFINITELY less of a fire risk than gas. A couple of years ago, unbeknownst to me at the time, the fuel filter in my diesel Mercedes Benz station wagon started leaking badly on the highway. WHen I pulled over to look at the source of the smell, the top of the engine was wet with diesel. I had the car towed home where I quickly replaced the faulty new filter I had just installed a couple of weeks before (there was a hairline crack that wasn't apparent, right out of the box). Had it been a gas engine and suffered a similar fuel line leak at the engine, the engine then the car would have caught fire and likely burned to the ground, on the side of the highway.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by rstl99

Had it been a gas engine and suffered a similar fuel line leak at the engine, the engine then the car would have caught fire and likely burned to the ground, on the side of the highway.

Actually, it would not have. The ignition temperature of gasoline (the temperature at which it will ignite spontaneously) is well in excess of 500°F. A hot car engine doesn't even get to 250°F. We antique motorcycle fans can attest to this fact first-hand. In fact, diesel's ignition temperature is actually LOWER than gasoline's (around 410°F), so in the situation you describe, diesel is slightly MORE dangerous than gas (but still very safe).

That said, your conclusion is correct in situations where there could be a spark or an open flame. That's because diesel's flash point (the minimum temperature at which it can be ignited by a flame) is much, much higher than gasoline's (126 °F vs −45°F). When I was kid, I worked summers at a summer camp. At campfires, we used kerosene torches (kerosene being very similar to diesel). We had fun freaking people out extinguishing the torches by dunking them in a barrel of kerosene. Don't try that with gasoline!

[folivier]

Remember it's not the liquid, whether gasoline or diesel, but the vapors that ignite. Same thing for wood. Watch the wood in a campfire and you'll actually see the vapors igniting from the wood as it heats up.

[Davydd]

Is it really a safety issue for concern if diesel engines are not as likely to catch on fire than gasoline to weigh in on your choice? How many vehicles on the road percentage wise are gasoline? How many diesel RV owners are opting for diesel in all their other vehicles because of this concern?

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by rstl99

About the original question, diesel is DEFINITELY less of a fire risk than gas. A couple of years ago, unbeknownst to me at the time, the fuel filter in my diesel Mercedes Benz station wagon started leaking badly on the highway. WHen I pulled over to look at the source of the smell, the top of the engine was wet with diesel. I had the car towed home where I quickly replaced the faulty new filter I had just installed a couple of weeks before (there was a hairline crack that wasn't apparent, right out of the box). Had it been a gas engine and suffered a similar fuel line leak at the engine, the engine then the car would have caught fire and likely burned to the ground, on the side of the highway.

Had similar experience with my Sprinter in 2013 after first fuel filter change that dealer messed up.

[otr]

If we were all honest and cared about emissions and climate change we would all scrap these vehicles. Really!